Do Not Inquire After Their Gods

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12-18-2005, 11:31 AM
Churchwork

Do Not Inquire After Their Gods

" . . . Inquire not after their gods, saying, How do these nations serve their gods?" (Deut. 12.30b).

Do not inquire after other gods through curiosity. God forbids us to make such an investigation for this will only lead to following the ways of the nations.

What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

"Nor take their names (other gods) upon my lips" (Ps. 16.4). Even on the pulpit we should be careful not to mention the names of other gods unless it is absolutely necessary for illustration.

The past is totally concluded. If believers can not separate themselves from idols wholly, how can they escape the greatest idol of the future, even the image of the anti-Christ?

The day is coming when the man of sin shall have a living image. Do not even worship the image of Christ. Make no image of anything above, on the earth, under the earth or in the sea.

In the Vatican there are over 2000 images of Christ.

"And not a few of them that practised magical arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver" (Acts 19.19).

Even though they are worth so much money, they were worthless, so the church set them to the fire. Praise God they were not sold by the church so the church might use the proceeds. If Judas was present, he certainly would have objected for the value was far greater than 30 pieces of silver.

All doubtful things must be dealt with! Some things are so plagued with sin they can not merely just be altered. They must be destroyed.
01-12-2006, 02:59 PM
bertie

Does this" make no image" part apply to art works as well?By this scripture do we eliminate all striving for artistic achievement?
Or does this apply only to idols and gods and religeous clutter of all kinds?
Do you believe all artistic endeavor to be misspent?The time spent struggling to create that which is of beauty,or grace?We are after all. a race of creators...having been constructed in Gods image.:confused:
01-12-2006, 03:13 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertie

Does this" make no image" part apply to art works as well?By this scripture do we eliminate all striving for artistic achievement?
Or does this apply only to idols and gods and religeous clutter of all kinds?
Do you believe all artistic endeavor to be misspent?The time spent struggling to create that which is of beauty,or grace?We are after all. a race of creators...having been constructed in Gods image.:confused:

There is nothing wrong with artistic achievement, but again like anything, if it is an idol for the person it must be forsaken. Each person has their own conscience.

I think you are asking for a legalism. You have asked me for legalistic rules before. You should stop doing that. Be left with an amen once and awhile instead of inordinately analyzing. Let us make no graven images - this speaks of things that can hurt our spiritual life because we place them in such great importance above what God considers important.
01-17-2006, 11:35 AM
Kevin H

What has that got to do with Apologetics? Thanks,

Kevin H
01-17-2006, 12:32 PM
Churchwork

Kevin H,

It is already explained in the first post, even in the first sentence. In other words, do not move beyond the Spirit's leading to always defend yourself or your faith; this can be an idol for you which produces inordinate behavior. What often happens is those who have an apparent ministry in such work, make so many mistakes because they are overwhelmed by studying one group after another in their assessment of Christianity. Jesus often ran away and when forced with belligerent accusations said nothing. Some versions of the Bible even write in John 8.25, "Why do I speak to you at all?";)

I for one have nothing to apologize for in my faith in Christ, so why do they? Christianity is solid and true, and needs no apologizing. I think it is Satan who brings in such words such as "apologetics" to confuse as though Christians in Christianity must apologize for something. It is not the case at all.
01-17-2006, 01:46 PM
Kevin H

Your point is well taken on the care we should employ when dealing with false relgions, systems, gods, etc.

However, apologetics is from the Greek work apologia which means to defend or give reasons for a view. The word is found about 9 times in the New Testament but the primary verse is 1 Peter 3:15. It has nothing to do with "saying your sorry"! A person who presents and defends or gives reasons for a view is an apologist for that view. Paul did this, especially in Acts 17 (17:17).

If you're not careful, Troy, you'll find yourself doing apologetics against apologetics (which is self-refuting).

Thanks,

K
01-17-2006, 02:44 PM
Churchwork

Kevin,

Acts 17.17 says, "Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him".

This is not to dispute beyond proper measure, nor is it apologizing, nor is the word apologia in Greek in this verse.

That being said, words change: today's word for defending the faith is not apologetics, for this word is too closely related to apologizing. The English is language is more adept to come up with a better word.

This must stand. As Satan tries to use language to deceive, we counter his deception with language that is more fitting. I can tell you lots of people think this about this word. And I can tell you also, that most apologetics sites are not very good, for they make a plethora of errors because they spread themselves too thin. Indeed, they need to apologize for their taking on more than they can chew. They are causing more problems then they are solving.

Think about it. Be careful you don't come up with lame excuses like "doing apologetics against apologetics" and propagating the same problem. If most apologeticists are spreading themselves too thin and making inordinate mistakes, we do not apologize for them, but show the truth of their mistaken assumptions for the sake of clarity. You may say they are involved in their soul's mental gymnastics forsaking the life of the spirit.
01-17-2006, 03:25 PM
Kevin H

I'm not real interested in changing classic terms but call it what you want. It is apologia and we are to do it according to the Scriptures, and the Scriptures use that very word.

There is nothing "lame" about pointing out self-refutation. Doing apologia against apologia is like saying "it's true there is no truth"!

Kevin H
01-17-2006, 03:35 PM
Churchwork

Chrisitianity does not apologize for its faith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin H

I'm not real interested in changing classic terms but call it what you want. It is apologia and we are to do it according to the Scriptures, and the Scriptures use that very word.

There is nothing "lame" about pointing out self-refutation. Doing apologia against apologia is like saying "it's true there is no truth"!

Kevin H

Defending the Scriptures is good, yes, but not inordinately, nor in a word that comes across apologetically in the English language. Come up to speed! Classic terms are just as deceiving as new terms. Just because something is classic does not mean it does not aim to deceive. This takes discernment.

Apologizing for a false apology is lame! This is Satan's work. This is a self-refutation just like saying it's true there is no truth, using your words, to compare, to show it is like saying it is ok to be falsely sorry for being wrongly sorrowful. This does not represent the absoluteness of truth which is like a pillar; the objectivity of truth is unaffected by your bad choice of words, misreading the purpose of this thread, and the constant behavior of always apologizing with mistakes as we see exhibited in many apologetics sites seemingly apologizing and spreading themselves so thin they never touch anything deeply. At best these are carnal Christians.

You're totally missing the point in your petty self. Do not argue for apples, while I am making a point about oranges. This is belligerent.

p.s. I have sent you 4 links to show you in your profile what you hold in your heart that is not right before God. I do not want your flesh to be excited further, so you are banned. Take the time to review those links as they will be most helpful to you.
02-17-2010, 08:21 AM
Missionary

Apologetics = Defense of <Insert Whatever>

The Apostle Paul, Jesus the Christ, Elisha, Elijah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Zechariah, ect., ect., ect.... On and on... Were all Apologists. Just because you confused the original definition of an apology with the popular meaning doesn't change the fact that all Christians are called to be Apologists. 2 Timothy 3:16 - 4:5
02-17-2010, 09:47 AM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missionary

Apologetics = Defense of <Insert Whatever>

The Apostle Paul, Jesus the Christ, Elisha, Elijah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Zechariah, ect., ect., ect.... On and on... Were all Apologists. Just because you confused the original definition of an apology with the popular meaning doesn't change the fact that all Christians are called to be Apologists. 2 Timothy 3:16 - 4:5

I am aware of both meanings so you are mistaken. For today's English I think the word "Apologist," "Apologetics" and "Apologizer" are words that are not appropriate for Christians defending the faith for the various many reasons given above. That's what the Holy Spirit put on my heart to say. I am sure we can come up with a better word than one that sounds like apologizing.

Satan came up with denominations which sound like demonations. There are no denominations in the Bible and no apologizers. Satan is always playing with words to twist things. He brings in Santa Claus. Rearranging the letters gets us Satan Lucas. It's subliminal. Let your guard down, oh it's harmless. The Bible says don't dress up trees with ornaments, but that is what most people do. Next thing you know the KJV is confusing Hell for Hades and KJV Onlyists are saying you throw Hell into Hell (Lake of Fire)? Calvinists try to hijack justification by faith and turn it into calvinism by calling it the Reformation. The deception goes on and on. The Church doesn't need a reformation into false teaching.

Next thing you know someone is doing Apologetics in an apologetic manner even apologizing for the atrocities of the murderous Protestant Pope of Geneva as though he were a Christian, or the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades, etc.

It will be so cool when Jesus is here. He'll explain in a particular passage whether He meant "spirit" or "Spirit" or "us" as meaning all people or just the elect. He'll explain which rendering of 1 Cor. 2.13 was the original, whether the longer ending of Mark belonged, and whether He liked the confusion that these various words can bring, e.g. apologetics. And He will be a Rewarder of those who answer Yes to the 37 questions in your profile and a Discipliner of those who deny His clear word of Scripture on these points. I think one group He is going to discipline greatly are the Judaizers who create a Christian Sabbath. The Sabbath rest is fulfilled in us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The shadow of things to come has been fulfilled in Christ.

God does not desire Israel to perform animal sacrifices again, so they are sinning by doing so when the Temple is built. The sacrifices pointed to Christ. God wants the Temple to be built, certainly, but to come visit the Lord who will be reigning in the Temple on Earth at the end of the Tribulation for 1000 years. Many people don't have faith to believe this. As the end of the 1000 years approaches with the Son of Man reigning with His overcomer believers, the Temple will be done away with so the New City can come down on the New Earth, and God and the Lamb are the center of.
02-17-2010, 11:45 AM
Missionary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchwork

I am aware of both meanings so you are mistaken. For today's English I think the word "Apologist," "Apologetics" and "Apologizer" are words that are not appropriate for Christians defending the faith for the various many reasons given above. That's what the Holy Spirit put on my heart to say. I am sure we can come up with a better word than one that sounds like apologizing.

Satan came up with denominations which sound like demonations. There are no denominations in the Bible and no apologizers. Satan is always playing with words to twist things. He brings in Santa Claus. Rearranging the letters gets us Satan Lucas. It's subliminal. Next thing you know the KJV is confusing Hell for Hades and KJV Onlyists are saying you throw Hell into Hell (Lake of Fire)? Calvinists try to highjack justification by faith and turn it calvinism by calling it the Reformation. The deception goes on and on.

Each of these passages tells us to reason with and defend our faith: Acts 17:2, 17; 18:4, 19; 19:8-9; 24:25; 1 Timothy 1:16; 1 Peter 3:15

You attack denominations when you yourself have formed a denomination or are part of one. Hilarious. Santa Claus is a kids story, who, over the years of the Church not preaching the Gospel has sort of hijacked the whole purpose of Christmas to children. HOWEVER, most people don't celebrate Christmas anyways because of two things, (1) it is Christ's Mass, I am not Roman Catholic so I don't celebrate that, and (2) most people use it as an excuse to get together for a family gathering. “Rearranging the letters” what? Subliminal? What are you talking about? What does all of this have to do with the OP? Absolutely nothing. It is you are committing what is called “Information Dumping” which is to overwhelm thread with too many topics that don't really deal with anything but are incendiary or attention catchers...

Paul disagrees with you, and so you may want to reconsider your opinion that this is what “The Holy Spirit put on your heart” because it goes counter to the Word of God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 Peter 3:15 (Koine Greek)

15 κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος...

The Greek word above, ἀπολογίαν, which is translated in the E.S.V. as “defense” is phonetically pronounced Apologia.

To Apologize is to render a defense for something. To argue what you are with denomination and demonation is called the logical fallacy of “Euphemism”.

It is entirely appropriate to do Apologetics.

I would caution you from listening to any “new” revelations from God, as his recorded Word as contained in the 66 books of the Bible are entirely sufficient and all that is given to us to use for learning about God and living the Godly life.
02-17-2010, 12:09 PM
Churchwork

Defending the faith is good, I just think we can come up with a better English word for Apologetics. There are no denominations in the Bible. Biblocality is not a denomination. It is a teaching. Biblocality refers to how God organizes the Church properly. The Apostles directly commissioned by God work regionally to appoint Elders of a locality. That is how the Church is organized in the Bible. The questions for Apostles are for Apostles to find agreement and for the Church to know who are the Apostles and Elders. It's a wonderful check. This is my calling. This is what God has chosen me to do. If your effort is to try to stop this from happening here, you might not last long; after all you are not born-again according to your profile, since you are a Calvinist, and I noticed in your profile you don't believe Hell exists. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. I also noticed you don't believe in premillennialism; that too is a big problem, for Rev. 20.3 says the nations are not deceived in the 1000 years. Are they deceived now? Of course they are. You're not allowed to post in the Christian forum section, but you can post everywhere else. Just seeing the answers you gave to the 37 questions, I can see you got lots of problems.

You are not aware Satan can work so subtly with words. It's not information dumping. I am showing you how words can create confusion. Most people celebrate Christmas, set up a Christmas tree and don't believe in Jesus which really makes a mockery of Christ. Those who do believe in Jesus are so bound by this tradition they must have their Christmas tree with ornaments when the Bible says not to do so. It is no coincidence Santa Claus can be rearranged Satan Lucas. Fun and loving Santa. Parents feel obligated to give their children the full Santa Claus experience. It is really for the purpose of consumerism to take your eye off Christ, buy more stuff than is needed, and initiate kids at a young age into Satan Lucas. He wouldn't be accepted so readily otherwise.

We already know the Greek word is apologia, I just think we should try to use the phrase "Defense of the faith" or "Defending the faith" or some other description instead of Apologetics because it is confused with apologizing. This is what the Holy Spirit has put on my heart to say. I understand you reject the Holy Spirit because you are Calvinist who refuses to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, and Calvinists are notoriously hardened folk and insensitive to others.

The Bible says don't say "I of Cephas" or "I of Apollos" for this is the beginning of denominationalism. When you examine the Bible for how the Church is organized it is always treated universally or locally, never denominationally like a corporation. The reason God does it this way in part is because He knows man's flesh. He knows as soon as there is a board of directors of a denomination, they have their false doctrines and spreads from locality to locality, to state and province, to country and continent. But if there is a false teaching it is contained. If the Church arranged itself according to locality with Apostles appointing Elders of a locality it would not spread to other locales, because as a unit they are responsible unto themselves. Similarly there is no archdiocese of United States or Africa, but Apostles maintain their region, e.g. churches of Syria or the churches of Dallas. God knows soon as man gets more power or scope than God wills man usurps himself against God's will. Think of Pat Robertson. Apparently he is close to being a billionaire. He better hold onto that money and not feed thousands of children that die every day to starvation. And the Roman Church has more false teachings than you can shake a stick at.

A denomination tries to make itself bigger. It doesn't know any better. But Biblical ecclesiology doesn't try to do that. It maintains its scope of operation and can never get bigger than that. Only the Apostle is a regional worker. All other workers are local in nature: prophet, evangelist, shepherd.

Everything I have told you is in agreement with God's word. The reason you don't understand it is because of your flesh. All is proven in God's word, just like how you can't get 1 Tim. 4.10 to agree with you.
02-17-2010, 12:23 PM
Missionary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchwork

after all you are not born-again according to your profile, since you are a Calvinist, and I noticed in your profile you don't believe Hell exists. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. I also noticed you don't believe in premillennialism; that too is a big problem, for Rev. 20.3 says the nations are not deceived in the 1000 years. Are they deceived now? Of course they are. You're not allowed to post in the Christian forum section, but you can post everywhere else. Just seeing the answers you gave to the 37 questions, I can see you got lots of problems.

We already know the Greek word is apologia, I just think we should try to use the phrase "Defense of the faith" or "Defending the faith" or some other description instead of Apologetics because it is confused with apologizing. This is what the Holy Spirit has put on my heart to say. I understand you reject the Holy Spirit because you are Calvinist who refuses to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated.

The Bible says don't say "I of Cephas" or "I of Apollos" for this is the beginning of denominationalism. When you examine the Bible for how the Church is organized it is always treated universally or locally, never denominationally like a corporation.

Everything I have told you is in agreement with God's word. The reason you don't understand it is because of your flesh.

Okay so you think that we should use another word for apologetics... Okay, well you were attacking it, and then you said the Holy Spirit put it on your heart... So I am sorry if I confused what you were saying with it sort of being a declaration of God through you....

I do believe in hell, but it is not eternal separation from God, but God literally pouring his wrath on you. It is an action of God that is personally delivered, and you are very close to God during this... Your wording of your questions makes it almost impossible for me to say yes to anything, and there were several things that you ask that were nonsensical. MARS? What are you talking about? The Greek word translated for New Heavens and Earth is actually renewed. God is going to restore this planet, not transport us to Mars.

I already told you that I hold the historic position of the church which is Amillennialism. Amillennialism is not Roman Catholic as it was believed before the RCC ever existed.

Look I don't follow John Calvin, I follow Christ. Most people label me as being a Calvinist, but it is not what I label myself with.

You are insane...

You don't know the meaning of what it means to be a Christian because you are part of a Anti-Christian Cult.
02-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Missionary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchwork

A denomation tries to make itself bigger. It doesn't know any better. But Biblical ecclesiology doesn't try to do that. It maintains its scope of operation harmoniously. Only the Apostle is a regional worker. All other workers are local in nature: prophet, evangelist, shepherd.

Everything I have told you is in agreement with God's word. The reason you don't understand it is because of your flesh.

You are not in agreement with God's Word, you are puffed up and are an arrogant Pharisee. Elders and Deacons are the only offices we have today because a qualification for Apostle was one who was an original disciple of Jesus. The Apostle had the purpose of laying the foundation of the Church... A foundation is only laid once dude... It was laid by the Twelve...

I am happy for you because you in your on ability saved yourself. That is the Gospel you preach, one that is lacking Christ.
02-17-2010, 12:39 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missionary

You are not in agreement with God's Word, you are puffed up and are an arrogant Pharisee. Elders and Deacons are the only offices we have today because a qualification for Apostle was one who was an original disciple of Jesus. The Apostle had the purpose of laying the foundation of the Church... A foundation is only laid once dude... It was laid by the Twelve...

I am happy for you because you in your on ability saved yourself. That is the Gospel you preach, one that is lacking Christ.

You're not born-again because you are a Calvinist. You try to save yourself by assuming you were regenerated without repenting and believing in Christ to be regenerated. God has given you these abilities graciously, but instead of obtaining the gift of repentance and faith you prefer to pridefully and selfishly assume you were regenerated which of course there is no basis for in Scripture. That's why you are going to Hell, the Hell you don't even think exists, according to your profile. Your spirit is dead to God, that's why you misread the Bible on so many areas of importance. You're in your head. Your claim there was only 12 Apostles is easily disproven by the word of God. There was the Twelve original Apostles, but the work of Apostles continues by God directly selecting whom He choses for this office. If Apostles didn't exist the churches would crumble away, because there is no person doing the work of a missionary. Wake up O dead man!

Your hostility against how God saves matches your hostility to the Apostles in which you said none exist today. You do this to exalt yourself above them, yet still you can't disprove the proofs for Apostles in Scripture are for today and the Apostles in Scripture who had not seen Jesus alive from the dead:

Some other Apostles not among the Twelve: (a) Barnabas (Acts 14:14) — "the apostles Barnabas and Paul"; (b) Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1 with 2:6); (c) Ephesians 4:8,11 are relevant — 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.... [vs. 11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers." Various unnamed apostles (and the other three workers as gifts for the Church) were given after Jesus' ascension back to heaven; (d) "The Didache" contained instructions on how to distinguish between false and true apostles; (e) "Thou hast tried them which say they are apostles" (Rev. 2.2). This verse wouldn't make much sense if there were no longer any Apostles setting up the churches.

You're killing my brain cells because you are always wrong. Inspire me by repenting of Calvinism and giving your life to Christ, accepting the Apostles for today, acknowled Hell is a real place of eternal conscious separation from God, and the coming premillennial dispensation when Jesus returns to reign in Person on earth (Zech. 14.4, Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7) with His overcomer believers (Rev. 2.26, 20.4).
02-18-2010, 04:53 AM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missionary

Okay so you think that we should use another word for apologetics... Okay, well you were attacking it, and then you said the Holy Spirit put it on your heart... So I am sorry if I confused what you were saying with it sort of being a declaration of God through you....

He does prefer a better word for Defense of the Faith than the word Apologetics because it sounds too much like apologizing. Words change, whole words drop off common usage and get replaced by more up-to-date words. You may denounce as a declaration but it is nonetheless God's will.

Quote:

I do believe in hell, but it is not eternal separation from God, but God literally pouring his wrath on you. It is an action of God that is personally delivered, and you are very close to God during this...

You don't believe in the Biblical Hell. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. By not believing what Jesus said you attempt to escape accountability. You're not thinking. Since annihilation is false and those who are unsaved can't be with God and the Lamb and the saints in the New City they have to go somewhere and that place is called Hell, an eternal separation from God. The wrath of God is the wrath of God, seen in the bowls, and though God's judgment and wrath are consummately expressed in Hell, Hell is a place. It is the Lake of Fire. What is thrown into the Lake of Fire is death and Hades: "And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20.14). Those who die go some place. They don't immediately go to Heaven or Hell, for resurrection has not taken place yet (1 Thess. 4.15-17). And "the rest of the dead [unsaved] lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev. 20.5). Not even David a man after God's own heart is in Heaven yet: "For David is not ascended into the heavens" (Acts 2.34).

Why is death cast into Hell? Because people no longer die. Why is Hades cast into Hell? Because the place of soul sleep, timeless unawares, paradise below, both the good side (where Lazarus went) and the bad side (where the Rich Man went) will cease to exist. All the fallen angels, demons and unsaved souls go to Hell. When a person goes to Hell they can never be released. But when a person goes to Hades, even the Abyss or Bottomless Pit they can be released: "to him [Satan] was given the key of the bottomless pit" (Rev. 9.1) to release the Antichrist and False Prophet and more demons than were released on Day 2 when the firmament was split.

In your thinking in keeping with your Total depravity idol, you miss the point. You're focused on wrath, though wrath does exist, what is in view is the fact that not only Death itself, but also the place of Death will cease to exist one day. Praise the Lord!

God's wrath is upon you because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated by erecting an idol you call Total depravity which says you can't so you won't; instead pompously and pridefully you assume you were irresistibly regenerated without having had to truly come to Christ with repentance and faith in Him. This is a selfish salvation worthy of God's wrath and your eternal separation from God. Don't blame me for your choice.

Quote:

Your wording of your questions makes it almost impossible for me to say yes to anything, and there were several things that you ask that were nonsensical. MARS? What are you talking about? The Greek word translated for New Heavens and Earth is actually renewed. God is going to restore this planet, not transport us to Mars.

When you judge falsely and you hold false beliefs, don't blame me. You're the one who chose to give into lies and who bears false witness. Mars is not nonsensical. Scientifically we know Earth will be burnt up by the increase in the size of the sun within 2 billion years and shall be left without a sea. The only other option is Mars since the New City is proven to be physical. The gravity is 1/3 that of Earth's and has that great high mountain from which John viewed the New City from, Mount Olympus. The Bible says Earth will be without the sea and believers will inhabit a New Earth. Why don't you have faith to believe this?

The Rapture is the power of God's transportation. He can transport a person to Heaven and back down again to return to reign with Him for 1000 years on Earth. He can then transport the saints to the New City. And as Revelation 21 shows those who still have bodies of flesh and blood at the end of the 1000 years will be transferred livingly to live outside the New City. They shall go into the New City to receive renewal of their bodies. Though sin is done away with, there is still inherent weakness in the bodies of those who live outside the New City.

How can you restore Earth when it is burnt up without the sea? You're not making any sense.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them . . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea . . . And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God" [the largest mountain in the solar system is located on Mars which is the perspective John viewed the new city from in spirit]. (Rev. 20.11, 21.1,10).

It says NO PLACE! That is hardly a renewal. All the oceans and rivers and ice caps will cease to exist.

The regeneration of the Earth is Matt. 19.28. "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matt. 19.28).

Jesus is going to return to reign on Earth for 1000 years. This is the regeneration of the Earth, after which time the Earth will be burnt up. The problem is you have no faith to believe that Jesus is going to do this and return just as He left because again, you worship a false Christ. You don't believe in the 1000 years, either saying it is occurring now even though Rev. 20.3 says the nations are not deceived in the 1000 years, or treating this finite period as eternity future without end. All 1000 year periods eventually end.

Quote:

I already told you that I hold the historic position of the church which is Amillennialism. Amillennialism is not Roman Catholic as it was believed before the RCC ever existed.

The original view of the Church was Chiliasm not Amillennialism. Amill came centuries later. You don't know your Church history. This is another word for Chiliasm. Just as Chiliasm is no longer used as a word to describe Premill so we should replace the word Apologetics with a better word for Defense of the Faith. Your view accepting the heresy of Historicism is false. This Amill teaching is used to control people, claiming it is happening now, so you are accountability not to God but to the Roman Church. Why don't you read Revelation 20.3 and ask yourself how the nations can not be deceived now when they still war and we hear rumors of wars?

Premillennial orthodoxy - Justyn Martyr. The Church Fathers were Chiliasts.

The Roman Church believes in Amillennialism. They are the ones who invented it even before the 538 date that is said to be the beginning of the Roman Church. The Roman Church didn't just magically appear in 538 AD. It was in the making for a long time. The Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Church both teach Amillennialism just like you. You're in agreement with over 1.5 billion souls of the great harlot.

Quote:

Look I don't follow John Calvin, I follow Christ. Most people label me as being a Calvinist, but it is not what I label myself with.

You are insane...

You don't know the meaning of what it means to be a Christian because you are part of a Anti-Christian Cult.

You follow the beliefs of John Calvin. Jesus never taught what you guys taught that grace was irresistible or that Jesus sends people to Hell without an opportunity for salvation. For that would be evil! That is the evil that you worship projecting your own evil heart. You're like Hitler graciously sending the Jews to the gas chambers without any opportunity of escape because it gives the god of Calvinism tremendous glory to do so. You're sick! As you pride yourself like a member of the Aryan race gloriously blessed by being irresistibly selected.

You shouldn't call people insane in a discourse especially when you are wrong about everything every time, that's not nice. You're losing control of yourself when you have to resort to name calling. You are part of an antichrist cult, the cult of Calvinism and its false way of salvation. Satan loves it. I am anti-Calvinist because your god is evil. In fact, I can't think of anything more evil than is Calvinism, your irresistible grace, limited atonement, unconditional election and Total depravity idol.

God of the Bible provides sufficient grace to all. Your god doesn't. God wins. You lose.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry...shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matt. 5.22). Would Jesus act the way you do? Of course not. It's not that you are insane, though you may be, but that you are unsaved, because you admittedly refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, so you are going to Hell. Satan rejects the Apostles, so do you. You think the millennial kingdom is now like the RCC and ECC. God wants to tear down your idol of Total depravity, but you won't let him. That's why, for example, you can't get 1 Tim. 4.10 to agree with you. You're a false Christian, so you are not allowed to post in the Redemptive Design forums, for you will just lead people astray.