Gap Theory

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02-05-2006, 03:57 PM
Imluvbyhim2

Gap Theory

I have no trouble believing in 6 literal days of creation. God said that in Genesis chapter 2 verse 1,2. It is a clear teaching. But to say that God destroyed the earth to the point of making it void in chapter 1 of Genesis, that is not clear teaching. It is an assumption -and not worth splitting fellowship over. I went to a seminary where one professor believed it. It was ok. It was not something everyone at the seminary was forced to believe - I didn't believe in the "gap theory" then and I do not believe it now. My faith is not complex - it is simple. When God wants us to believe something, He tells us. He doesn't leave his teachings in dark ambiguity, it is out in the open and it is clear.
02-05-2006, 04:36 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imluvbyhim2

I have no trouble believing in 6 literal days of creation of that which was already there. God said that in Genesis chapter 2 verse 1,2. It is a clear teaching. But to say that God destroyed the earth to the point of making it void in chapter 1 of Genesis, that is not clear teaching. It is an assumption -and not worth splitting fellowship over. I went to a seminary where one professor believed it. It was ok. It was not something everyone at the seminary was forced to believe - I didn't believe in the "gap theory" then and I do not believe it now. My faith is not complex - it is simple. When God wants us to believe something, He tells us. He doesn't leave his teachings in dark ambiguity, it is out in the open and it is clear.

Make note the word "asah" in Gen. 2.2 for made means restoration for the 6 days. This includes man's body from "dust" (Gen. 2.7). God made desolate in Gen. 1.2, for God does not create earth a waste or without form. This is the consequence of sin, just like when God produced the flood in Noah's day. So too in Gen. 1.2 God made desolate the earth because of the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. Your idea is not a clear teaching because you don't accept God's teaching on fallen Lucifer who brought a third of the angels with him to rule over the earth and over what was now to become the demons.

Day 2 is the only day not considered a good day because when God split the firmaments, up came some of those demons from the deep that God cast down into during Gen. 1.2. To assume otherwise as you do is an unclear treatment of those beings before Gen. 1.2. Don't just think either it is splitting hairs, for God deals with sin most exactingly. Those less conscientious in their conscience would tend to minimize God's working in restoration. Thank God that your being wrong before and wrong now is not the guiding principle, that since you could not repent then and still not now will not be the determining factor. It is merely your pointing to self. You can't force your rejection of the truth onto people as you think that the truth of the gap teaching would be.

You have accepted some complex, dark and ambiguous teaching that I can not condone. This is not God's love, for God deals with sin. Moreover, it is not so much your not agreeing, but the arrogance by which you speak without reason which is not healthy for you. The same goes true when you said in private message that you believe there are no more apostles today, again, without reason when you reject Eph. 4.11. Why do you seek to change the times and the ways and erradicate the apostolic commission of apostles appointing elders to take care of local churches in the first century apostolic age? Who made you God to stop the work of the apostles all of a sudden? Be ashamed!
04-07-2006, 09:30 PM
greg1844

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy

Make note the word "asah" in Gen. 2.2 for made means restoration for the 6 days. This includes man's body from "dust" (Gen. 2.7). God made desolate in Gen. 1.2, for God does not create earth a waste or without form. This is the consequence of sin, just like when God produced the flood in Noah's day. So too in Gen. 1.2 God made desolate the earth because of the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. Your idea is not a clear teaching because you don't accept God's teaching on fallen Lucifer who brought a third of the angels with him to rule over the earth and over what was now to become the demons.

Day 2 is the only day not considered a good day because when God split the firmaments, up came some of those demons from the deep that God cast down into during Gen. 1.2. To assume otherwise as you do is an unclear treatment of those beings before Gen. 1.2. Don't just think either it is splitting hairs, for God deals with sin most exactingly. Those less conscientious in their conscience would tend to minimize God's working in restoration. Thank God that your being wrong before and wrong now is not the guiding principle, that since you could not repent then and still not now will not be the determining factor. It is merely your pointing to self. You can't force your rejection of the truth onto people as you think that the truth of the gap teaching would be.

You have accepted some complex, dark and ambiguous teaching that I can not condone. This is not God's love, for God deals with sin. Moreover, it is not so much your not agreeing, but the arrogance by which you speak without reason which is not healthy for you. The same goes true when you said in private message that you believe there are no more apostles today, again, without reason when you reject Eph. 4.11. Why do you seek to change the times and the ways and erradicate the apostolic commission of apostles appointing elders to take care of local churches in the first century apostolic age? Who made you God to stop the work of the apostles all of a sudden? Be ashamed!

In Genesis 1:1 God created the heavens and the earth. So Jesus is clearly the creator of the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 states that the earth was without form and void. Does it say in Hebrew how long this state was? It appears from the context that the time span for verses 2-5 was one day - one evening and one morning.

Now I certainly agree with the teaching of the Bible about the fall of Lucifer/Satan and that he was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels. I do not believe that satan had control of the earth before it was created. I also do not believe that Jesus gave the earth to satan. Jesus gave the earth to man. There was no sin on earth until Adam and Eve rebelled against Jesus.

I believe that satan became the prince of this world when he stole the dominion of earth from Adam, Jesus' appointed ruler of this world. That is why when Jesus came to live, die, and resurrect again He was considered the second Adam. Thus Jesus overcomes the strong man and takes the posession of the earth back from satan and will restore it to mankind after the judgment, the destruction of the world through fire, and then He will recreate a new heavens and a new earth in Rev 21:1
04-07-2006, 10:42 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg1844

In Genesis 1:1 God created the heavens and the earth. So Jesus is clearly the creator of the heavens and the earth.

This verses is not specific about which Person in the Godhead created so it should be taken as God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit holding council to create together. This discription is most apt,

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/thewayofthelord.htm

Quote:

Genesis 1:2 states that the earth was without form and void. Does it say in Hebrew how long this state was? It appears from the context that the time span for verses 2-5 was one day - one evening and one morning.

Gen. 1.2 does not say earth was without form and void, but became desolate and waste. Gen. 1.1, scientifically speaking we know was at least 13.7 billion years. Gen. 1.2 separates with an And,... to describe what happens sometime later. Then God began to restore summarized by the six summary days.

Quote:

Now I certainly agree with the teaching of the Bible about the fall of Lucifer/Satan and that he was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels. I do not believe that satan had control of the earth before it was created. I also do not believe that Jesus gave the earth to satan. Jesus gave the earth to man. There was no sin on earth until Adam and Eve rebelled against Jesus.

Earth was created in Gen. 1.1, then Lucifer fell and ruled over the beings before God made the earth desolate in Gen. 1.2. Naturally, falling out of heaven, Satan comes downward to earth and operates in 2nd heaven. It is unavoidable. Since God could not erect His authority over the angels, He did so in man, through His Son. Day 2 says there was sin prior to making desolate because day 2 is the only day not called a good day. When the firmament was split, up came some of those demons cast into the deep in Gen. 1.2. Proper cause and effect is vital to understand God's ordering. Here we have explained God's use of time, 13.7 billion years, the fallen angels sometime later, then God making desolate, then restoration. The Hebrew words for the six days is restoration, not creation, that is, a restoration of what was already there.

Quote:

I believe that satan became the prince of this world when he stole the dominion of earth from Adam, Jesus' appointed ruler of this world. That is why when Jesus came to live, die, and resurrect again He was considered the second Adam. Thus Jesus overcomes the strong man and takes the posession of the earth back from satan and will restore it to mankind after the judgment, the destruction of the world through fire, and then He will recreate a new heavens and a new earth in Rev 21:1

Satan did not steal it from Adam for that is to imply Adam could not have done anything about it. Thus, Satan fell to earth long before the first Adam on earth. So God made the earth desolate and cast the demons into the deep because Satan corrupted the beings on earth. The demons, when the firmament was split, could tempt Adam in the garden but he could not harm him against his will. The garden was the one safe place on earth (though Adam was responsible for the whole earth in due time), and there were disembodied demons looking to inhabit bodies. They could steal nothing from man if man did not fall. When Adam fell, it just gave what Satan needed to be god of earth, for Satan loves the destruction of men and the kingdom of God. Satan was not cast into the deep, but all the demons were in Gen. 1.2. Satan was still in 2nd heaven as were the fallen angels, but they were essentiall prevented from being rulers of earth, because man was now ruling earth in the garden. Yes, Jesus is the second Adam and is the perfect submission unto the Father to find obedience in men again. Yes, the cross defeats Satan. Christ returns in Person to reign in the millennial kingdom-to-come, the time of recompense of rewards for those in Christ that overcome (Matt. 25.1-12, Rev. 20.4), then the earth is burnt up (Satan let lose briefly from the pit), and then the new city begins where there is no longer need for rewards.

Rev. 20.3 says the millennial kingdom has not started yet because the nations are still deceived. Christ is not reigning with an iron rod now, for that is not the sense you get with an iron rod. And certainly this is not a millennial peace now with the lamb and lion laying down together.

You leave out accountability in the future, as well as accountability in the past.
11-21-2006, 11:50 PM
n2thelight

1). In the beginning. It states: "In the beginning," but it doesn't say when that was. We know from archeology that this earth is billions of years old. Scientific Carbon Dating does not contradict this verse!

There is no date given in the above Scripture, why try to affix one? It is impossible, for there is no reference point given. We can however pick up a date when Adam will later in the Scriptures be formed, because all his ancestor's ages are given in the Scriptures themselves, and the age that they were when they had the next child chronologically in the list. There was a reason that God saw to it that this, seemingly redundant and unimportant information, was handed down through the Millennia whereby we may simply add the numbers up together and deduct them from any certain date in secular history.
But Adam's being formed is long after this verse transpires. This is a substantial point often overlooked by those whom, for whatever reasons of their own, seek to cast doubt on the Bible. It didn't say that God created the Earth when He formed Adam. So while with certainly we may date Adam, we cannot do the same with the date of the creation of the world. Why charge God and His Bible with error when the real problem is our inability to read what is written and to not read into it that which is not written?

*2). Notice that there is a period at the end of this sentence. That means that this thought is complete and the next sentence is a new thought. In reality there is unknown eons of time between this verse and the next.
was is the English translation of a Hebrew word (hayah) which means Became. In other words, the earth was not created without form and void, but that it became that way at some point in time after it was created.

Hebrew word #1961 hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare 1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary)

*2). without form was translated from the Hebrew word (tohuw) that means: to lie waste, a desolation. You cannot lie waste or desolate something unless it was once in good condition and then at some later time it was destroyed.
Hebrew word #8414 tohuw (to'-hoo);
from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain: KJV-- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

*3). void is translated from a Hebrew word (bohuw) that means: an indistinguishable ruin. You cannot have a ruin unless there was at first, something to ruin.

Hebrew word #922 bohuw (bo'-hoo);
from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: KJV-- emptiness, void.

*4). darkness (choshek) as it is used here means to become dark, to be darkened. You cannot darken something that was not lit in the first place.

Hebrew word #2822 choshek (kho-shek');
from 2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: KJV-- dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

*5). deep, this corresponds with the description of the destruction of the first earth age by water in 2 Peter 3:5+6 (NOT Noah's flood here.

Hebrew word #8415 tehowm (teh-home'); or tehom (teh-home');
(usually feminine) from 1949; an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply): KJV-- deep (place), depth.

*6). There is a period at the end of this sentence. The following sentence marks the beginning of the rejuvenation into this (our current day) earth age.

*7). Spirit of God = The Holy Spirit; the Spirit of God IS the Holy Spirit.

Below, we will see what Almighty God says about the way He created the world, and we see that He did not create it void and without form, but that it became like that at a later time:

Isa 45:18-19
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain*1, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)

*1). vain = There is something remarkable here that is lost to the English reader of the Bible. In the Hebrew Manuscripts that the above verse was translated out of, the word

Now about that earth ages

The first earth age was inhabited by us, by our souls in a different form, there were no flesh human bodies then (animals yes). In that first earth age we all had spiritual bodies, in this earth age we have flesh bodies because we were created and formed from the dust of the earth.

When God destroyed that first earth age, the souls, the spiritual bodies returned to the Father (God), just as we do when we die in this earth age. But spiritual bodies leave no organic remains. When we die today, only our organic remains (flesh and bone) remain to be buried. Our soul, our spiritual being or spiritual body so to speak, returns instantly to the Father whom gave it.

In this present second earth age we have two bodies, one within the other, and they can only be separated by death. In the first earth age we only had the spiritual bodies. You know that when someone dies today we bury their body, but their soul goes back to God that gave it. It is this soul that will be judged either to Heaven or "Hell". But the deceased flesh that we bury simply rots back to the dirt and minerals that they are formed of.

Your spirit (your intellect) and your soul will either live forever or will be consumed in the lake of fire (Hell). Just as you will never find or see any physical remains of someone's soul, or spiritual body; neither will you find physical remains of those spiritual bodies that inhabited the earth in the first earth age. You will however, find the remains of their existence; the markings, tools, and the residue of settlements. But the spiritual bodies went back to the Father, and are now in the process of going through this second earth age, in flesh bodies. There is a reason for this (explained further on in this study). Every soul goes through each earth age only one time, but it is the same one soul! Use this as an analogy: At one time we were all infants, then children, and eventually adults, but it was always us, the same one person.

We can read about the destruction of the first earth age in Jer.
Jer 4:22-27
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

We see in verse 25 above: "there was no man" and "all the birds of the heavens were fled", that we are not talking about Noah's flood here. For Noah, his family, as well as sets of every flesh animal, including birds, passed through the flood!

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

We can also see that there were cities during this time.

I've always said this,and I will say it again,had satan not sinned we would not be in flesh bodies.
11-22-2006, 01:12 AM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2thelight

The first earth age was inhabited by us, by our souls in a different form, there were no flesh human bodies then (animals yes). In that first earth age we all had spiritual bodies, in this earth age we have flesh bodies because we were created and formed from the dust of the earth.

You were doing so well up to this point. In the first earth age we did not inhabit. The first earth age was inhabited by creatures which now are the demons with their disembodied spirits. This is not us. Man is a completely different creation. The "dust" (Gen. 2.7) from which you speak of is the forming of our bodies, but don't say it "us" back then because man was not yet made in God's image in earth's earliest ages. We did not have spiritual bodies either, for God had not yet breathed in His Spirit to directly create man's spirit to make contact with the body to form the soul life.

Quote:

When God destroyed that first earth age, the souls, the spiritual bodies returned to the Father (God), just as we do when we die in this earth age. But spiritual bodies leave no organic remains. When we die today, only our organic remains (flesh and bone) remain to be buried. Our soul, our spiritual being or spiritual body so to speak, returns instantly to the Father whom gave it.

Nobody returned to the Father, just as we don't when we die. We are resurrected together at the last harvest, last trumpet. Our spirit does not go one place, our body another place and yet our soul another place. We await resurrection together. What happened to those demons in earth's earliest ages was they were cast into the deep. Day 2 is the only day not called a good day when God split the firmaments, so when that day came to pass out came some of those demons and one of them entered the serpent to tempt Adam and Eve. They are disembodied. They love to inhabit creatures. Later on they married daughters of men and created the giants like Goliath. This was very unnatural; the demons did not keep to their place. Nobody is raised up to 3rd heaven yet, not even David, a man after God's own heart. Enoch was raptured and Elijah were raptured, but not to 3rd heaven, for remember, they will return as the two witnesses to die in the Great Tribulation.

Quote:

In this present second earth age we have two bodies, one within the other, and they can only be separated by death. In the first earth age we only had the spiritual bodies. You know that when someone dies today we bury their body, but their soul goes back to God that gave it. It is this soul that will be judged either to Heaven or "Hell". But the deceased flesh that we bury simply rots back to the dirt and minerals that they are formed of.

We don't have two bodies. We have one body. When we die, we go to hades to await our newly clothed resurrected spiritual physical body. When someone dies today, they go to paradise below awaiting to be resurrected to paradise above, if they are saved. Those who are raptured alive, their bodies will actually disappear like Jesus' body, Enoch's and Elijah's.

Quote:

Your spirit (your intellect) and your soul will either live forever or will be consumed in the lake of fire (Hell). Just as you will never find or see any physical remains of someone's soul, or spiritual body; neither will you find physical remains of those spiritual bodies that inhabited the earth in the first earth age. You will however, find the remains of their existence; the markings, tools, and the residue of settlements. But the spiritual bodies went back to the Father, and are now in the process of going through this second earth age, in flesh bodies. There is a reason for this (explained further on in this study). Every soul goes through each earth age only one time, but it is the same one soul! Use this as an analogy: At one time we were all infants, then children, and eventually adults, but it was always us, the same one person.

Your spirit is not your intellect. Your intellect is of your mind and your mind is of our soul with its functions of mind, will and emotion. Your spirit runs far deeper with its functions of intuition, communion and conscience. There are remains of those beings in earth's earliest ages, for they possess souls today. They are demons and they are all around us. The reason your soul will never be annihilated, nor will any one else be annihilated is because there is eternal consequences, and if all you have to fear is being extinguished, then that is no threat at all. But if you have to live out eternity in relation to how you responded to Christ, then you will reconsider.

Your reincarnation theory does not cut it. Man was made in God's image about 6000 years ago, not before as you suggest we were spirits before.

Quote:

I've always said this,and I will say it again,had satan not sinned we would not be in flesh bodies.

It was actually Lucifer who sinned. Had he not sinned, God would have had no need to create man it appears, but even so, He may still have wanted to. It is interesting he tried to find obedience in the spirit beings, but since he could not, he then resorted to creating bodies of flesh and blood. It is as though the angels were too close to God and were too proud. But with man, He is redeemable even though fallen. Some are redeemable. To prove the case that angels were too close to God, notice God provides no salvation for them. It is already known they will never repent. They know nothing of the precious blood. The 24 good angels who are archangels (eldest elders of the universe; the number 24 represents their administrative work) in Rev. 4 know nothing of the washing of their white robes with the precious blood of Christ. All they can do is take up our prayers and praise God for redeeming us (Rev. 5). God could not find obedience in the angels, so He sought to have that obedience erected upon man and this is guaranteed through His Son and those who are in Christ.