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Originally Posted by
athiest
It is not just me, but most of the world's population past and present. If by your logic, it would be arrogant to believe in God, because the only reason people follow it is for THEIR OWN salvation. We can have a perfectly workable society without theism, no reason why we can't.
The reason why we can't do it on our own is because man can't do it on his own. That's the point. This takes humility to appreciate. An arrogant man thinks he can. Continued war is not perfectly workable. Your standards are so low. Hence, the coming Tribulation to show man still can't get it right on his own. God is most gracious so He provides salvation. Salvation is certainly better than unsalvation. The reason a person gets saved is because they see God's greatness, place their trust in Him and receive His only begotten Son. Not as you put it just to get saved. Do you see how you have to bear false witness to make your case? Just because that is the reason you would get saved doesn't mean others are like you? You're just projecting your own selfish condition.
The reason why a person believes in God is because God not only proves Himself through nature since the universe can't cause itself (which you can't overturn this preponderance of evidence), but He shows His holy, righteous and perfect nature. Why would you want something less than that? It's because you prefer to be independent to God whatever rationale you use, so God is going to put you in Hell where you would belong, just like criminals are locked up for life. Don't be offended by this. God is just giving you ultimately what you want in your heart of hearts.
Free-will would not exist if God didn't make Himself obscure enough for you to reject Him and provide just enough evidence for you to accept Him.
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You assume I believe in evolution in it's most conservative form, you know, as the Christians explain it...sorry to disappoint. There is evidence...actual physical evidence of some form of evolution. On the other hand, there is not one iota of evidence for any religion.
I don't know what "more conservative form" means that you believe Christians believe. I am not sure where I assumed you believe this. Since there is evidence in evolution and cosmology the universe can't cause itself, then accept the uncreated Creator created. To not do so is lunacy. There is evidence, as was given, for the religion of Christianity, this being God's very design by the proof of the resurrection of Jesus by multiple attestation in various group settings. Since you are unable to explain this away naturalistically, realize Jesus is God and salvation is through Him. Alas, I am repeating myself, and you are not responding to this point.
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I grew up in church till I was 21...I know all about it which is why I am no longer part of it.
You never grew up in a church, for how can you grow up in something you are not even a member of? The Bible teaches once-saved-always-saved, so if you were a part of it, you would never cease to be a part of it. The reason you still never got saved is because a person has a choice to go to Hell, but suffice it to say since you present no substantive issues, this just further proves you condemn yourself. The church is defined as either the universal body of all believers or the members of the body of Christ in a particular locality. Since neither of these definitions include you, do you see again, how you misrepresent God's Word?
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God said that all sins are equal...in the bible at least
No, He didn't say that. He did say the greatest sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit. "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come" (Matthew 12:31,32).
Realize the main reason you are not saved is because you don't come to God with an honest heart. You come to Him with a selfish heart. So you don't get saved.
Then of course, there is the 7 deadly sins. Understand how dead your conscience is that you think all sins are the same. When you overeat, you think this is just as bad as killing someone. What you are misunderstanding is that all sin is against God, not that small sins and greater sins are equal.
Have you noticed your thoughts are always wrong?
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It has to, he's already seen it...what is your source?
God operates outside of time, so it doesn't have to happen already. The source is the proof of the Uncreated must exist because nature can't cause itself; hence, the Uncreated brought time into existence. Why is this so hard to understand?
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First off, predestinates is not a word, so I'm going to respond to what I think you are trying to say.
Predestinates is a word. It's in the Bible. It's in your dictionary. Do you get a sense of how mindless and obstinate you can be with every thing you say? That is the nature of someone going to Hell.
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The choice is only there because he created everything...knowing ahead of time every occurrence. So yes, he condemned every non-believer by creation. Essentially, he knew that many (>billion) people would be damned and he still created them.
God is not going to prevent the creation of people who will receive Him, just because one person or billions refuse Him. Every last person still has free-will. The choice is there because you really do have the choice to accept Christ. Stop believing in Satan who says you can't, that you are preprogrammed to reject Christ. That's a lie. Satan is the greatest liar there ever was.
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This would make more sense for the creators of this particular religion to construct it this way, but they didn't, that is creating an offset of a religion based on a religion...it is another protestant denomination.
Molinism not another religion, but just the word to explain how God in Scripture reconciles His infinite foreknowledge with free-will. You even admit that makes sense. It makes sense, because this is God's Word how God saves, an advanced explanation of osas arminian.
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Not if he knows the outcome ahead of time...who lives, who dies (by this I mean heaven or hell)
Yes, God foreknows, but not making you a robot. He foreknows your free-choice. The wonder of God is that He is able to do this. Did you grow up in a Calvinist denomination? Calvinism is designed to turn you off of Christ, so that is maybe why you got a false impression, for Calvinism misrepresents God of the Bible.
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I can see how you would come to this conclusion, sorry about being a little vague. I do not believe you are all robots, rather scared for your own butt. I also believe in free will because of the absence of a God.
How would fear nullify your belief in robots? You should know when I got saved, I had no fear. All I could see was the love of God and how all things are summed up in Christ. After being saved I appreciated more reverence for the Lord which is the fear of the Lord. Whereas the reason you don't give your life to Christ is because you are "scared for your own butt" to give up control you have over self and place your trust in Christ.
Here is the problem. Before you were arguing against free-will which only leads to robots, but now you are arguing for free-will which is a contradiction in your behavior. The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). I can understand why you jump around like that because no matter what you have to reject God and call Christ a liar. With an absence of God it is not free-will, for how can free-will come out of non-free-will of the universe? That's illogical. You can have an idol of free-will you place above God like Satan did who places his choices above God and tempt Eve in the Garden with the enticement to reject God.
May you yet one day give your life to Christ.
