Your [unsaved soul] biggest issue seems to be that of Israel defending itself and somehow 20,000 Israelites surviving more than a dozen nations partaking in child sacrifices that sought to eradicate Israel because they knew Israel was God's chosen people. One sorta picks up on the clue that if generation after generation they don't stop this heinous sin, that something radical needs to be done and for the very survival of Israel. This was not required in every case, but I think just in those most vile situations. It is very sad this had to be done, but it was necessary.:crymore:
On the contrary, you don't get the point, so please respond to the answer supplied and not repeat yourself, for that would be belligerent. First, the Bible is not a book of fiction, for it never comes across that way. Paul in his travels didn't make them up. Since no scholar would agree with you, you're on your own in your hostility that the Bible is purely fiction. You don't have a leg to stand on.Quote:
Originally Posted by trainedobserver
Israel did not worship tribal gods. They worshipped the creator who is proven in the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible.
Nor have I appointed myself spokesman, but God has chosen me and He did so before the foundations of the world. I didn't realize this until after I was saved. The God of Israel is the God of the Bible is the same God I have fellowship with through Christ. This God who is uncreated is not the god Israel worships today however, for they have rejected Christ as their own prophecies foretold they would.
Can you see the two mistakes you just made in your words regarding tribal gods and and self-appointment? Don't form an argument by misrepresenting. Christians don't self-appoint ourselves, but we fulfill the condition set by God to come to the cross to receive His saving grace. If you were right that the ultimate God of Israel is several tribal gods, then the burden of the proof is on you to show it rather than self-declare it.
What does Jesus say?
"Ye did not choose me, but I chose you” (John 15.16). How can He do this?
Because, Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!" (John 8.58).
I am glad, so glad, that all you can do is accuse blindly, but you don't have anything to back up your hostility and reviling.
Of all the nations of the world, why was Israel the first nation to reveal Himself to?
"Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, [was] four hundred and thirty years" (Ex. 12.40).
They were in slavery longer than any other nation, so their hearts were open to listen to God for the truth. You might say, they weren't really slaves.
Yet, God said, "I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from slavery in Egypt" (Ex. 20.2).
An example will help to understand how desperate this situation was. Israel would go to war to defend itself from these vile nations, and what they found was generation after generation no matter how many people they had to kill IN DEFENSE, those evil nations would continue to come again to war. If they killed everyone over 20 who was just male that wasn't good enough. The next generation if they killed all boys and men above 10 years of age, that was not good enough, because they would come back again after they spent another generation of sacrificing their own children in the fiery mouth of the god of Molech. Imagine taking your child and throwing him or her into the flames to appease your god. Maybe some still do this today figuratively speaking. Now even the next generation, they still came to try to kill off Israel, so Israel killed all the boys, no matter how old they were. Yet somehow the women managed to resurrect their evil nations worshipping Isis, so Israel had no choice but to destroy the women too which was for their very survival, being such a small number of people of only about 20,000. This is how much fighting took place and how evil these nations were in their child sacrifices. It further substantiates that deaths due to war on a per capita basis was horrendous back then. Today, deaths due to war per capita are not as bad, so this helps give us a feel for the exponential progression in conscience. This progression tells us that we would not still be sinning now if this exponential progression was continuing from an eternity of the past of cause and effects. Hence, the uncreated created which is God of the Bible since none can compare to Christ.
Your problem is you don't appreciate how bad the situation is, so you use it as a lame excuse to reject God of the Bible, but you will be judged for your misrepresenting the dire situation because of your selfishness and hostility to God. I have told you the truth. Remember though, this was only required in the rarest of instances, not towards everyone Israel had come across. Recall when Israel entered Canaan it first wrote a letter to the peoples there to ask that it may enter with evidence it is their long standing dwelling in which Abraham had first laid claim to the land given to him by God.
Those evil nations don't exist today, and Israel remains in which Jacob and David are the fathers of Jesus as a man. You're arguing for the team that already lost because of their hate and evil ways. If Israel was wiped out, which is what you are proposing Israel should have allowed by not taking the action it took, then Jesus would have never been born. Yet He was born, He does say He is God, He does say His death was to pay the ransom, He was resurrected, and multiply attested.
Genocide is wrong killing of people. What Israel did was not wrong. It was either the actions they took or they would cease to exist. That's the choice. Don't confuse self-defense with genocide. Hitler's genocide was not in self-defense, because his existence was not threatened by Jewish people. Israel on the other hand would cease to exist as a people if they did not defend themselves. The difference is worlds apart, so let us pay careful attention to how Satan accuses. He will confuse such things. He operates in the spirits of the unsaved. He is the most evil spirit that ever existed.
Today, if there was a wild nation of people like zombies that would run at you with a knife and anyone that came within their sphere of influence, it is quite possible they may need to be annihilated, but no such thing even comes close to happening.Quote:
You need to understand that _you_ don't get to decide that someone is so 'vile' and 'heinous' that their children must be killed. I don't give you that power over me and that would be the only way you or anyone else could assume it. Your fictional god only has that power over those who give it him as well.
Israel did not want to kill off nations, but it was God's requirement. Since Israel failed in fully doing so, they had lost their land of Israel and went into exile of Babylonian captivity.
Do you see the mistake you are making? You are comparing some unknown situation today to back then, but I know of no such situation today that we can compare to as like zombies running at you with knives ready to cut your throat and teaching their children to do the same. If a suicide mass murderer from Islam runs at you ready to blow themselves up and you, then you got to take them out if you have the ability to do so.
So there is no situation to compare to today, unless of course you have children, and you all run at me with bombs packed to your side and I happen to be able to defend myself. I would take you out whether you run at me or someone else, because what you would be doing is evil. This is not assumed. If you are reallying doing this, then the response would be deemed appropriate.
Since God of the Bible is proven in the 4 Step Proof for God, then to do His will is most appropriate and to His good pleasure. Hence, if you got some evil nations that will never cease what they are doing, then back then, it was necessary to take them out, even children if the nation was that evil and that relentless generation after generation, because those children would continue to grow up and do the same thing. That's all they know how to do because they are surrounded by a child sacrifice system.
It may help you to understand this by thinking of the flood in Noah's day. It was a local flood that killed many people, because those people were so utterly corrupted. Similarly, Gen. 1.2 we see God made the earth desolate and waste because of the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. Again, God wiped them out completely. Those included in the desolation are what we refer to as demons today because they are now, as a result, disembodied spirits. The demons and fallen angels will never repent, so they must go to hell which for mankind is called the second death. You may accuse God of being too harsh, but His response is perfectly righteous. How can they and those like yourself be allowed to be with the saved in the new city and new earth? It would make God unholy if he allowed you to go where we are going.
It can be hard to understand this, but it becomes easier to understand when you realize how utterly deprave these people were. That's why I use the zombie analogy, even young children zombies. Though young children if they did not reach the age of accountability, they would be saved the Bible says.
Since these things that happened were not my decision, nor Israel's, and they did come to pass, and the results are in, the findings remain that it was necessary, because after 2500 years, Israel has reclaimed her homeland as prophesied. The prophecy has been fulfilled! Your child sacrificing nations lost and you lose along with them in your defending them.
Ezekiel 36:8-10, the prophet Ezekiel said that the people of Israel would return, rebuild and repopulate their fallen cities. Ezekiel, according to the Bible, lived about 2600 years ago during the time of the Babylonian Captivity, when many Jews, including Ezekiel, were taken as captives to Babylon. After the Babylonian Captivity ended, many Jews returned to their homeland. But about 1900 years ago, the Jews again were forced into exile, this time by the Romans. However, since the late 1800s, millions of Jews have returned to their ancient homeland. And, once again, they have been rebuilding and repopulating their ancient cities. In 1948, there were about 600,000 Jews living in Israel. Today there are about 6,000,000.
Ezekiel 36:8-10
"`But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.
Therefore, we must conclude based on the above reasoning your god of hostility to God of the Bible is a fictional god.
Since you can't find anything historically wrong with the Bible and there is more than ample archaeological, secular and other Christian sources corroborating the historical Jesus, it i quite obvious, therefore, to conclude that you are just being belligerent and obstinate. God cuts off the conversation when you leave the body of flesh and blood and await to be resurrected in hades to be eternally separated in hell away from God and His people. How sad for you.Quote:
"The net result is those several nations do not exist today, nor their child sacrificing, whereas Israel remains and more than 20,000 souls."
You're deluded into thinking that the Bible is history. It is not.
I have to give you an infraction for mindless self-declarations. When you post at least try to back it up with something instead of sitting on your prideful pedestal.
Israel really has returned to her homeland. However much you think this is contrived you have to consider this quite an amazing feat. Just look at Israel on the map smothered by Islamic countries, yet there it remains like a light in this dark world. As Israel is continually attacked it will gain more and more land. You know the principle of Islam is to wipe Israel off the land into the Mediterranean then from the face of the earth. This is not unlike the evil nations in Canaan long ago, except this time Israel does not have the ability nor the calling from God to kill every last soul in Islam because as much as this is the goal of Islam against Jewish people, they are not as vile as were those nations long ago partaking in child sacrifices. This continues to speak of the exponential progression of conscience.Quote:
"...to their homeland after 2500 years as prophesied. When they do this spells the time of end-times."
Most resemblance to Christian 'end-time' teachings and current events is contrived but it is largely due to current events being cast to resemble prophecy not the other way around. There is no supernatural. The 'end-times' have been the day after tomorrow since the story was first told.
End-times have never been perceived as the day after tomorrow, but right perspective is to feel and believe that Christ could return any day now and to believe this even more so than ever before because of this amazing prophecy fulfilled that Israel has returned to her homeland after 2500 years.
As was explained in rare cases even the killing of children and entire peoples was necessary, because they were like knife wielding zombies that would not cease their onslaughts as they came in hoards to attack Israel. I believe you are morally bankrupt for using this as a lame excuse to reject God of the Bible when you still can't find anything wrong with the 4 Step Proof of God of the Bible, nor appreciate God's desire for the survival of good nations. What about present day examples? There are others. USA had to nuke Japan in WWII, because they had this quality of never ceasing their lust for world domination militarily. And I think many Japanese are radically changed to not think in those terms anymore, because of what they went through. Many infants died in those two nuclear explosions. Thank God World War II did not continue on for years and possible decades longer.Quote:
"Such response by God ..."
Nothing you have said could possibly justify the killing of children and entire peoples. And because you can't understand that you're a morally bankrupt religious fanatic. Only the unbalanced see the deaths of children and genocide as 'permissible' under any circumstances.
I'm sorry that you can't see that. It isn't that I'm concerned that it is bad for you but rather how bad it is for people you come in contact with who need genuine help.
You are fanatically religious in your hatred of God of the Bible. That makes no difference; you won't be able to avoid hell no matter how much your anger and despising increases. God made you, so you can't circumvent Him with your imagination and fantasies to misrepresent reality.
Nobody wants the death of children such as in WWII, but there is the unfortunate fallout from having to do something that is the only option. We would not be where we are today in flourish democracies if some of the hard choices were not made.
Now, I have given you an example, even from recent times, of infants dying in the fallout of stopping evil. Since you are unable to show otherwise with explanation, realize that you are morally bankrupt and corrupted in your reasoning. Please do not respond with repetition of your idea without anything to back it up, for the burden of the proof is on you now, so you will need to bring in some evidence for your side. Of course it doesn't exist.
Of course it is wrong to kill children. Nobody disputes that, but I have given you examples where children died on the process of war as an unfortunate consequence of battling evil. Evil people will use children as human shields too. I am glad what happened before does not happen anymore, because child sacrifices have ceased to exist. Though I am sure your father Satan will try to reinstate child sacrifices in some form or another.
As I had said in my previous message to you...Such response by God through Israel would no longer be needed ever again of course, because firstly, Israel rejects God, and secondly, there are no nations performing child sacrifices except in Islam, but it is a form of sacrifice that is not directly putting them on an altar and slitting their throats or throwing them in the fire of the god of Molech, so the response is not the same. Today, Islam's child sacrifices however brainwashed are willing participants in their hostility to God of the Bible and in calling Jesus a liar, just like you. Do you share their same racism against white people in a religion of non-whites?
