The Heartless Monergistic God of Calvinism
Re: Fisher http://epagonizesthai.blogspot.com/2...ynergists.html
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Anyway, his denial of irresistible coercion runs afoul of the text alread, particularly in the sections where it says God
has mercy on whom he desires and hardens whom he desires (
Romans 9:18). The rest of the text corroborates this when it talks about how the potter has a right to do what He wants with the clay. Anybody wanna point out to me where the text supports synergistic decisional election? I don't see it, so maybe it's actually him who is reading into the text.
Mercy upon whom God has mercy is not a claim of no mercy, but amount of mercy and never lack of sufficient grace for all. In verse 17 Paul is talking about the Pharaoh, but we know the Pharaoh hardened his own heart first. Likewise the Potter does what He wants with the clay but not unrighteously, so don't be mad at God because you have to repent and believe in Him so that saving grace can come upon you. It is best to be humble and not assume into the text more than is there. Romans 9 is talking about how God chose Israel as a nation and that you should not complain about this, and even "not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew!" (Rom. 9.6) For many are of the family of Ishmael or many Jews themselves reject Christ. This fact doesn't mean some people lacked grace, either common or special grace and thus predestinated to Hell without any recourse. Hence, we can't find verses for either Total depravity or irresistible grace in Romans 9 forcing salvation on some and denying opportunity for others.
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It's pretty presumptous of this person to think that Calvinists refuse to repent and believe in Christ, or worship Satan for that matter (where does he get this stuff?). Once again, you can plainly see who is reading into the text when he says verse 19 talks about man's free decisions. That is nowhere stated or even implied in the text. Remember, man in his natural state is a slave to sin. His heart is naturally inclined towards the things of this world (
Romans 8:5-8), and will continue in that state unless God changes the man's heart (
Ezekiel 36:26).
There is no assumption, for the Calvinist admits he assumed regeneration which forced him to repent and believe. Christians and the Bible don't considered forced repentance to be true repentance nor forced belief to be true belief. This, of course, is evil tyrannical-ism. Nowhere in the text do we find irresistible coercion: "Well then, you might say, 'Why does God blame people for not listening? Haven't they simply done what he made them do?'" (v.19). The Calvinist who does not listen accuses God, "Why God do you blame me for haven't you made me Totally depraved?" or "God, why do you send people to Hell without any opportunity to be saved?" Little does the Calvinist realize such an accusation is unfounded, because God does provide sufficient grace to people to have the choice. Therefore, remember nobody is Totally depraved. Romans 9 is about the grace God gave to Israel to be the center of all nations, not about individual salvation so it is taken entirely out of context when the Calvinist tries to impose upon it forced regeneration without prior repentance and faith in Christ. That is not what it is talking about.
Alway remember, being a slave to sin and inclination to things of the world is propensity to sin, not Total depravity. Total depravity is a pompous and pride-filled idolatry. Divert from things of the world to things of God (Rom. 8.5-8) and so shall you be saved. The new heart God gives unto regeneration in Ez. 36.26 is not given to everyone, for not everyone receives God's provision or enabling sufficient grace for salvation.
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More emotionalism. Yes, an enslaved will cannot accept Jesus by itself:
There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, there is not even one.
(
Romans 3:10-12)
There you go, folks. There is none who seeks for God, all have turned aside. In light of this, how can one say that salvation is received through an act of autonomous free-will? Biblically speaking, Jesus Christ has made it clear that one cannot come to Him unless one is drawn by the Father:
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
(
John 6:44)
For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.
(
John 6:65)
The apostle Paul also affirms this when he writes to the Thessalonians:
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.(
2 Thessalonians 2:13)
It's not emotionalisim that God gives you the choice, but His divine plan. That which is propensity never should be construed as Total. I am glad your emotion has been impacted, but let God reach down deeper into your spirit's conscience.
None righteous and none do good is expression of our state of being under sin and death. It is not saying you can't help an old lady across the street or receiving God's mercy and offer of salvation on the cross. If Jesus didn't die on the cross then you would have no way of being saved certainly, but He did die for you even though you still reject Him.
That no one can come to God unless God draws is the fact of His work in providing sufficient grace, but notice not all drawn come to Christ, for some "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). Why do you keep avoiding this point? Likewise, no one can come to the Father unless He is drawn, granted and given to be able to do so. Sadly so many could have come and could have been granted but they drew back unto perdition as almost all Calvinists do.
Notice what Paul said, nobody is chosen from the beginning except by sanctification and "belief in the truth" in which belief is not a work, nor is it irresistibly imposed, but is available to all to obtain the gift of faith. "We have also obtained access by faith into this grace" (Rom. 5.2), "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (Eph. 2.8).
God will continue to plead for your salvation and everyone's salvation not in vain, because Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, not just the elect.
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4000 cases of free will? Really? I did a search on the term "free-will," and the term only occurs in the context of "free-will offerings." I also did a search on "choose" and "choice," and most of the passages refer to God choosing, rather than man. Especially prominent are Jesus' words to His disciples:
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you
(
John 15:16)
And finally, I did a search for "decision," and failed to find any instances of synergistic regeneration. In fact, I found quite the opposite:
The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD.
(
Proverbs 16:33)
I love Proverbs 16. It contains some passages that simply cannot be squared with the Arminian position. In addition to verse 33 quoted above, there are also these two little gems:
The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
(
Proverbs 16:1)
The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
(
Proverbs 16:9)
Yes 4000 cases. Dave Hunt has done the work in his book, What Love is This? Calvinism Misrepresentation of God of the Bible.
Again the question must be asked how does God choose a person? Every decision of the Lord provides man all his own free-choices. God sets the paramaters, but it is still man's free-will to receive the cross or to not receive what Jesus did. All God's grace upon man is sufficient for man to have the choice which is why God pleads for all men and not just some men.
Does God offer us salvation when He says "come unto me" (Matt. 11.28) because we have free-will: "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17)? Are faith and works contrasted as opposites? "By grace are ye saved, through faith;...not of works" (Eph. 2.8-9); "But to him that worketh not, but believeth..." (Rom. 4.5). Christ repeatedly gave such invitations as "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11.28), and "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink" (John 7.37).
So remember, the "plans" of man are his works, but works are contrasted with choice or faith. The Lord is in control of all man's steps but that does not mean man is prevented from having the choice. Hence, "free-will offerings" and other expressions of a synergistic relationship that can only occur with man having his own sovereign free-will. A robot does not come out of the womb anymore than an idol in Calvinism causes you to do something against your will.
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Comparing Calvinists to Mormons is just low. Really below the belt tactics he has there. The poster here is comparing apples and oranges. Quoting
Revelation 22:17 doesn't help his cause either, since "freely" is a very misleading translation (it comes from the NLT, which is not exactly the best translation to use when trying to exegete scripture). The word there is δωρεάν, which literally translates to "gratuitously." So obviously, the passage has nothing to do with decisional regeneration, and the only way you can read the passage that way is if you've presupposed that everyone is capable of coming to Christ (which is sheer Pelagianism, and is flatly contradicted by the scriptures just mentioned). The best translation of that passage would be the NASB's, which states
let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
NLT is one of the better translation for today's English. Actually all the Bible versions use "freely" or similar meaning, not just the NLT. Revelation 22 is your Last Warning, the last chapter of the last book of the Bible. What more can God do to convince you?
The KJV reads: "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17). ASV, RSV, NIV, ESV all agree "freely" or "free gift" which is freely received. "Freely ye received, freely give" (Matt. 10.8). Gratuitously given can be rejected by man just as any "gift."
The Church says to Fisher, Come. If you are hearing me, Come. If you are willing and hunger for the truth, Come. Come freely. How can God be any clearly? You don't need to assume pridefully you are regenerated which you assume further forces you into repentance, belief and salvation. Regeneration is salvation. You need not be afraid to let go of control of the grip you have had on yourself for so long and which you continue to grip desperately through the idea it's not your choice where God has to irresistibly impose it on you like you do upon others in your life.
The decisional regeneration has been set before you which you admit you have not thus done yet. Pelagianism is Calvinism, for think about it. Pelagianism denies the essence of the fall of man, which of course, is not Total depravity, but separation from God and thus needing atonement. Nothing there or in any of the verses discussed indicate Total depravity or Total inability or sufficient grace given to some but not all. Grace is sufficient for all "whosoever believeth" (John 3.16) which is why Jesus pleaded with Nicodemus to believe in Him. The same is true in the Old Testament,
"As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from your wickedness, O people of Israel! Why should you die?" (Ez. 33.11)
All the Bible versions mentioned are acceptable and all render the same conclusion: Freely ye received, freely give" (Matt. 10.8). What is forced is obviously not freely received.
The subtleties of the deceit of Mormonism is no different than the subtleties of Calvinism, but as we can see both can be shown false. Man gets off in trying to find loopholes in Scripture, but God sees the true intent of their heart.
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God has not failed because God's plan was that through Israel's rejection, the gospel came to the Gentiles (
Romans 11:11,
25). Funny enough, this same passage talks about how the people of Israel's hearts were hardened. So much for refusing by their own free-will.
Romans 9 is talking about rejection, but why were their hearts hardened? Because they refuse to repent and believe. Nothing is said about coercively preventing sufficient grace. Like I said, Romans 9 is not conclusively saying one way or another if salvation is irresistibly imposed or sufficient grace is for all, for there are enough verses and chapters through Scripture that see God pleading with man and for man to repent, because he has been given sufficient grace to have the choice even after God hardens someone's heart because they have turned from Him, e.g. Calvinists receiving far more grace than an atheist and drawn to God but draw back unto perdition. Your Hell will be worse than the Hell of atheists, because it is comparable to the grace given and rejected.
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Once again, more eisegesis, more emotionalism. Nowhere in the text does it say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart first. I want to know though: if God gave sufficient grace for all to come to saving faith, why don't all people come to saving faith? Surely Jesus did not lie when He said that all that the Father gives Him will come to Him and and that He will never cast them out (
John 6:37).
It's not emotionalism. It's God's mind and His pure conscience. Don't confuse emotion for conscience and righteousness. Indeed the Pharaoh hardened his own heart first and even some Calvinists admit this fact which of course contradicts their own belief system. Calvinists often jump back and forth in confusion due to embarrassment of their teaching.
Even Piper (a calvinist) acknowledged:
Before the first active assertion of God's hardening in Exodus 9.12 there are two assertions that he [Pharaoh] hardened his own heart [8.15,32] and after 9.12 there are two assertions that he hardened his own heart [9.34,35] [Thus]
Pharaoh's "self-hardening" is equally well attested before and after the first statement that God has hardened him...." (Emphasis added)
Like clockwork, the Calvinist always comes to the troubling question, Why do some believe in Christ while others don't? Especially, if we all have sufficient grace to be saved. The Christian answer always is: Because we really are sovereign beings with free-will.
God damns the least and saves the most in this world ensemble as described under Molinism, for God selects the optimal number which become the definition of free-will. All people probably could come to saving grace if there were just 4 or 5 people, but with billions of people they don't because they don't get along. But God is unwilling that some should not be created on account of others who refuse His salvation. He is seeking the optimal for the New City which He deems His perfect number of pillars for the New City.
Truly Jesus did not lie when He said all that the Father will give Him will come, just as He said they all must be drawn. But sadly, many "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39).
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"You are not of Him people because you refuse to believe." It's the other way around: You refuse to believe because you are not of Him (
John 10:26).
Read John 10.26 and ask why they are not of His flock? The following verse gives the answer: "My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me" (v.27). He knows us because we came to Him and follow Him. Whereas you do not. You assume a regeneration without genuine repentance.
You see, you don't hear His voice when He says, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" (Rom. 5.18). "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4). All men can be saved "whosoever should believeth" (John 3.16) "to the knowledge of truth" and "unto justification of life." This is a parallelism. Same "all men." What child could read it as "all men" of different kinds of men or different classes of men. That is just a plain old fashion twisting on Scripture! Do you see before you repentance is needed for your heretical Mormon teaching?
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"Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a small number will be saved...Well then, what shall we say about these things? Just this: The Gentiles have been made right with God by faith, even though they were not seeking him" (
Rom. 9.27,
30). Even though you are not seeking God of the Bible but the god of Calvinism, you too can be saved by faith through repentance if you are willing. "But the Jews, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded" (v.31).
Simply nonsensical. No comment...
"By faith" is not nonsensical. It is what you refuse to obtain through repentance and belief in Christ unto regeneration. Your works are killing you as you claim "persevering of the saints" trying to rationalize this heresy of an extreme view of depravity of Total inability. It is not only extreme but warped. It is warped because it alters not just the length but the breadth of its meaning; that is to say, Total depravity becomes not just Total but also alters the intent that man is fallen in need of a Coercer rather than a Provider.
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Of course Calvinists know and affirm that we depend on faith to be saved. The bible says so (
Ephesians 2:8-9). However, it makes no sense to say you receive faith "if you come to Him with an honest heart." Why? Simple: Because the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (
Jeremiah 17:9). It is also dead in trespasses and sins (
Ephesians 2:1). This is the main reason why we cannot come to Christ unless God removes our heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. This is the chief flaw in Arminian and Molinist theology: It fails to take into account the fact that the natural man lacks any disposition to do anything good, let alone come to saving faith. For this to happen, God's efficacious grace is necessary to supersede that rejection of Christ with a saving faith in Him.
And THAT, is a biblical view of salvation.
Calvinists don't say they depend on faith to be saved, but insist this faith they speak of is imposed on them because they say that they must be irresistibly regenerated first which will force this faith on them that is not freely given. Anything forced is not free. Eph. 2.8-9 doesn't say anything about irresistibly imposing salvation or faith, but they are free gifts. A free gift is not free if it is forced.
However deceitful the heart may be, it is not Totally depraved. That's because you are made in God's image and don't lose that image just because you are fallen from grace. Your extreme view of depravity is an idol of Total depravity. Something to hang your hat on, but it is in fact what keeps you eternally separated from God, because it says back to God that you are pridefully preselected and others reprobated to Hell without any opportunity whatsoever to have the choice to be saved. Such a view makes your god utterly evil because being born into sin without recourse is an evil imposition like a psychotic parent who keeps her child locked up till they are 40 years old in the basement.
Furthermore, dead in trespasses also doesn't equate to Total depravity. It does equate to separation from God which is why Jesus died on the cross for our sins and the Holy Spirit works upon all His creation to bring in redemption in touching peoples' hearts.
The removal of stony hearts can't come by way of denying some sufficient grace to all to have that removal. The Calvinist exposes himself unsaved time and again when his own conscience can't sense the evil in this, for if it is evil for man made in God's image to act this way, then it is evil for God if that were His actual attitude. How can God's standards be less than man's? Unless the God is false and is just made in the Calvinist's image.
When you come to Christ possibly one day, you will still not be able to do so as you try to do now by your natural man through the selfish doctrines of Calvinism, but it will require you come not by the flesh, but by the image of God graced you with a will that has sufficient grace to be able to do so, thus fulfilling the condition God requires in a synergistic and personal relationship, not a cold, heartless imposing will. Such a will as this is deficient and making up for his own deficiencies and character. The efficacious grace of the One True God is effective for all whosoever is willing unto saving faith.
And that's the Biblical view of salvation! Amen.