The God of Calvinism is Not the Savior of All Men

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02-14-2010, 06:17 PM
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The God of Calvinism is Not the Savior of All Men

Minister Carter of a small Presbyterian Church in his hometown who wants to be a youth minister
Re: http://www.youtube.com/user/PreachingJesusToAll

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Originally Posted by PreachingJesusToAll

Yes God is the saviour of all who Believe! Thats What Calvinists teach!

I know, that's why you are not born-again. You're preaching a false Christ. God is the Savior of all men not just only those whom you allege to be saved by irresitible grace disallowing anyone the choice in the matter! Grace is restistible (OSAS Arminian) not irresistible (Calvinism). There is a pride that exudes from you that really turns Christians off so you are not a Christian brother. There is no such thing as a Calvinist Christian or Christian Calvinist. That's like saying Satanic Christian or Christian Satanist. You have troubles understanding what we are telling you because you have been brainwashed into a cult of Calvinism. We are not claiming you are saying man has no free will, but that your version of free will is entirely faulty, because your god is unwilling or impotent to be able to provide sufficient grace to all men. God is impacting your conscience and imploring you to listen to walk away from all things Calvinism instead of continuing to seek to rationalize your flesh and bear false witness, for it is clear if it is evil for us to behave the way the god of Calvinism does, then it is evil for us too. It is the doorway for Satan into the kingdom of heaven and local church settings.

"Verily I say unto you, What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18.18). Christians will not loose Calvinism on earth, but will keep it bound, because it is of the serpent; so shall it be bound in heaven.

That would be quite an odd statement to claim God would not be the Savior of all who believe. Surely you don't think this is the distinguishing factor that determines Calvinism from Arminianism as though Arminians don't believe God is the Savior of all who believe? Surely you jest! After reading your long article, it has all the typical arguments of Calvinists and misreadings of God's word which show the evil nature of the god of Calvinism. Make no mistake, Satan seeks to produce a simulation or facsimile of God's design. Call it Satanic grace and baptism of the evil spirit. My prayers go out to you.

As a young lad you have grown up in the brainwashed environment of Presbyterianism like Mormons grow up in their environments which is difficult for us Christians to understand how you can not see the plain truth, but that is the nature of cults. All reason flies out the window! Contradictions abound. You're grabbed by feelings, whether that be feelings of pride and self-exaltation or community or even happy thoughts. There is an end to all things false: total depravity, irresistible grace, limited atonement, unconditional election.

We can sense your self-exaltation and it would be very painful for us to have to spend eternity with you, for to be around a worshiper of a god who does not provide sufficient grace to ALL MEN is not a loving God. Since He does provide grace to all men and everyone the opportunity to be saved, then no man is Totally depraved. Total depravity and made in God's image are mutually exclusive. The entire Adamic race is made in God's image and certainly falling from grace can't change that fact! Consequently, all 5 points of Calvinism are false since they rely on TULIP dependent on Total depravity.

1 Timothy 4.10 says God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" NOT "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe" for that is nonsensical and redundant. If God was the Savior of all men who believe only then there would be no need to say "specially those who believe." Since you continue to be unwilling to deal with this verse as a child would read it, it shows something is wrong in your heart.

You're not thinking because your spirit is dead to God; that is why you come across very puffed up without the love of God.
03-03-2010, 03:47 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreachingJesusToAll

Total Depravity. This means that man is tainted by sin and therefore unable to come to God on his own. Man has free will, but that free will is controlled by sin because of original sin. The Bible says that mans heart is evil and he is a slave to sin.

Your not listening to me. Open your heart and listen to what is said.

Man is fallen, can't come to God on his own and is in need of mercy an grace. Man is not Totally depraved, since all men are made in God's image, all provided sufficient grace to be able to respond. In Calvinism, man is Totally depraved so your god has to irresistibly impose salvation on some as Hitler did to the Aryan race, and deny sufficient grace to others, sending them to the gas chambers from birth without any opportunity of escape as Hitler did to the Jews. As Dave Hunt says, What Love is This? It is an idol called Total depravity that keeps you from genuinely receiving Christ to repent and believing in Christ to be regenerated, but instead pridefully assume you were irresistibly selected and that there was nothing you could do about just as those who are reprobate could do nothing about it in your faith that you exalt yourself over others.

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Unconditional Election. Since man is totally deprived, God chooses to save man through their faith in Jesus Christ without any condition. He chooses to provide everyone away to Heaven!

If God provides everyone a way to heaven, then there is a condition, which is whosoever is willing, otherwise everyone is saved. Obviously not everyone is saved. Obviously, you don't think everyone is saved, so you are contradicting yourself when you say there is no condition. For if there is no condition then everyone would be saved.

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Limited Atonement. This does not mean that only a few were chosen, this means that atonement is provided for a person when the accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Even the prophecy in Isaiah says he bare the sins of many (not all), and that is because not everyone would believe.

God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10), not the Savior of just some men so only some men can believe. Obviously a person receives atonement when they believe, but that is not the discussion before us, for we are comparing Arminius with Calvin. Arminius taught that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, not as you teach that with Isaiah many does not mean all so you think Jesus didn't die on the cross for all.

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Irresistible Grace. Now this does not mean that the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted, but this acknowledges God's Sovereign power to make his Holy Spirit overcome people and make it irresistible, such as on the Day of Pentecost. This also is saying that we will be draw against our evil will to a point to where we can choose Christ and God. Because Christ said that NO one cane come to him unless the Father draws him. And God draws us all because he unconditionally chose to save the world!

God never said that those He draws all come to Him. Many who are drawn, "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). The difference between your god and God of the Bible is the latter provides sufficient grace to all (unlimited atonement), whereas your god is unable to do that.

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Perseverance of the Saints. This simply means that whoever endures until the end will be saved. This shows that it is your choice, you can fall back into your sins (away from grace), and go to Hell, or you can keep living for Christ and grow as a Christian and go to Heaven when you die!

Man can't endure to keep himself saved. To be saved you will have to give your life to the God who keeps knowing you can't keep yourself saved, which you have been unwilling to do and accept, relying on your own strength. Calvinists teach forced OSAS, whereas you teach non-OSAS since you say a person can lose salvation. You're both wrong. What you don't realize is that God simply won't save you to begin with and that is exactly what we see happening to you, for you are not born-again. John says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28), but you are calling John a liar. That would be a goofy kind of salvation to be born-again, lose it, but get it back again only to lose it again. Or to be born-again, but once you turn back, then there is no further opportunity to be saved. Like said, in both cases, that's goofy. God simply won't save you to begin with.

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This is what Calvinism is. There is nothing unbiblical about this. What you are speaking of is a dangerous doctrine called Hyper-Calvinism. These people that are Hyper-Calvinists go beyond the Word of God and pervert the gospel. They use Calvinism as there cover up and call themselves Calvinists. Hyper-Calvinism is evil. Just like there are Hyper-Arminian-ism as well, some Episcopals teach that.

Calvinism doesn't teach non-OSAS, so you are wrong in claiming Calvin taught non-OSAS. Calvin thought he could never lose salvation. Even so, the reason for him it is "perseverance" rather than "preservation" is because he doesn't really know if he is saved or not, not really, deep down inside because it was never his choice. So he worked for it hoping it would all work out. He doesn't remember when he was born-again, and as a child he was baptized so he thought he was irresistibly saved at that time without even having to have had a choice in the matter to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. That's why Anabaptists rejected him, and that's why Calvin killed them.

All Calvinism is hyper for all Calvinism teaches Total depravity, an idol which says you can't repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, so you don't and you won't. There is no hyper Arminianism because all Arminianists teach the same thing. God predestinates by foreknowing our free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

Realize your Calvinism beliefs and non-OSAS don't go together, so you are contradicting yourself. Irresistibly regenerating someone then claiming that person can still go to Hell makes no sense for how can a person fall away from eternal life which is irresistibly given in Calvinism? And how can person who is irresistibly denied any opportunity for salvation go to Hell for that would be evil since your god made him that way.
03-03-2010, 05:10 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreachingJesusToAll

God chose to save you and everyone else without any condition, and atonement can be provided for you when you truly accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

If God chose to save everyone without any condition then everyone would be saved which contradicts the fact that Hell exists for the unsaved and Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. You're trying to make a liar out of Jesus. Moreover, you had said if a person falls away they can lose salvation. How can they fall away and lose salvation if God saves everyone?

Atonement can be provided to you to give you the choice to respond; hence, God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" obviously, not "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe" for that is nonsensically redundant.

The issue is not whether God saves when God saves, but how does He save? Does he save your way by irresistibly imposing salvation and then weirdly letting you perish after he irresistibly imposed atonement on you, or does Jesus die on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whosoever is willing can be saved by grace through faith once-saved-always-saved.

You're a doubletalker. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

My prayers go out to you, for know not what you do. You're not born-again because you refuse to give your life to the God who keeps and you teach salvation is irresistibly imposed for everyone yet a person can lose eternal life. Weird.

You're making me dizzy with your contradictions. The truth of your mistaken assumptions is there is no limited atonement because the atonement is unlimited. There is no Total depravity because we have free will and grace is sufficient for all to be able to respond. There is no irresistible grace, for we can deny God's grace and offer of salvation. There is no unconditional election because election is conditional on our responding to what Jesus did for us on the cross. And non-OSAS and forced OSAS are false, because when God gives eternal life it is eternal and salvation is conditional upon our response.