Atheists Commit the Fallacy of Ignorance

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10-15-2010, 09:21 PM
Parture

Atheists Commit the Fallacy of Ignorance

Re: Hemouth
http://www.youtube.com/user/Hemouth
Re: hardinmichael1981
http://www.youtube.com/user/hardinmichael1981

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardinmichael1981

The Universe HAS always existed. Time, Space, and Matter were formed simultaneously with the so called "big bang". Secondly, you don't understand the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. Look it up. Educate yourself. Just because science can't answer every question, that does not mean we have come upon an answer by filling those gaps in our knowledge with religious fairytales. The so called "god of the gaps" comes about from the argument from ignorance.

You're trying to fill a gap by committing the argument of ignorance by saying the universe always existed. Why the doublestandard? Realize if you want to mindlessly and meaninglessly invoke a universe that always existed, make sure you compare it to God who has a mind, for that which doesn't have a mind can't create a mind. What doesn't have self-consciousness can't produce that which does. What doesn't have free will, feelings and conscience can't create that which does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemouth

It asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa). thats the ignorance thing..

That's the position you are taking for nature being the explanation so you are committing the fallacy of argument from ignorance. That's not the approach Christians take. We observe the evidence and let it lead us where it may. It says nature always needs a cause with trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something can come from nothing. So we realize, therefore, the universe needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, and this is whom we call God.

Remember as was explained in the video, Christians are not saying God exists because you can't disprove God. The reason you can't disprove God is because of the evidence that is so overwhelming the universe can't always have existed, since you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so AND if the universe can't come from nothing for this violates the first law of thermodynamics AND God of the Bible trumps that which doesn't have a mind, volition, feelings, conscience an self-consciousness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyMc7U256lA
10-16-2010, 08:04 AM
Cephei

Quote:

What doesn't have self-consciousness can't produce that which does. What doesn't have free will, feelings and conscience can't create that which does.

Do you have evidence for that claim?

Quote:

So we realize, therefore, the universe needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, and this is whom we call God.

I disagree. The universe doesn't "need" anything, because unless you prove with evidence that such a thing can even exist, it could be anything. Hence why we don't apply inductive reasoning to science.
10-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Churchwork

The evidence that non-conscious elements can't create consciousness is proven:

Science doesn't know what life is and can't explain how life arose from the chaos of an explosion that sterilized the entire cosmos a trillion times over. "Natural selection" is no help. It can neither create life nor assist the first living thing to start functioning.

The first living cell would have had to come about by pure chance. But this is mathematically impossible--and there is no arguing with mathematics.

There are approximately 10^80 atoms in the cosmos. Assuming 10^12 interatomic interactions per second per atom, and 10^18 seconds (30 billion years) as twice the evolutionists' age of the universe, we get 10^110 (80 +12+18) as the total number of possible interatomic interactions in 30 billion years.

If each interatomic interaction produced a unique molecule, then no more than 10^110 unique molecules could have ever existed in the universe. About 1,000 protein molecules composed of amino acids are needed for the most primitive form of life. To find a proper sequence of 200 amino acids for a relatively short protein molecule has been calculated to require "about 10^130 trials. This is a hundred billion billion times the total number of molecules ever to exist in the history of the cosmos! No random process could ever result in even one such protein structure, much less the full set of roughly 1000 needed in the simplest form of life.

"It is therefore sheer irrationality...to believe that random chemical interactions could ever [form] a viable set of functional proteins out of the truly staggering number of candidate possibilities. In the face of such stunningly unfavourable odds, how could any scientist with any sense of honesty appeal to chance interactions as the explanation for the complexity we see in living systems? To do so with conscious awareness of these numbers, in my opinion, represents a serious breach of scientific integrity" (John R. Baumgardener, Theoretical Division of Los Alamos National Laboratory. See In Six Days, pp. 224-25).

Donald Page, an eminent cosmologist, calculated the odds of the universe existing 10^10^1240. Remember, the simplest physical structure upon which natural selection might operate must happen by chance--and it can't.

When anyone says that an eye, for example, couldn't happen by chance, Dawkins responds in an offended tone, "Well, of course an eye couldn't happen by chance! Natural selection is the very opposite of chance!" But Dawkins doesn't mention that natural selection is impossible without some living thing that can replicate itself.
You further prove the point because after all this time mankind still can't get abiogenesis to work; even if he could, it still shows it required our intelligence and could not come along from natural non-intelligent processes.

Of course we apply inductive reasoning to science which are repeatable observations over and over. You would have to show this is not evidence rather than just assert. Since we observe trillions of causes in nature this is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, so we can be confident the universe always needs a cause which leads to infinite regress. But, logically, infinite regress can't be true because we would have had an eternity to have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. So based on this evidence, we know the universe needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space.

And the uncreated Creator is doubly confirmed for those most ignorant folks because you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs and their claim to have seen in various group settings Jesus alive from the dead. Since nature needs an explanation because a non-mind can't produce a mind this triply confirms God exists.

Remember, the cause for the universe can't be anything, for if it doesn't trump God of the Bible then it fails to compare to God Almighty. There is nobody who in person in history claimed he created the universe except Jesus. And nobody actually proved himself to be God but Jesus by His perfect resurrection proof of multiply eyewitness testimony of having seen Jesus in various group settings. The burden is on you.

Amen.
10-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemouth

funny quote about sherlock holmes.... ''once we exhausted all options...'' We have 100 years of technological civilization. 100 years? and the human race is billions of years old ( unless you believe the bible which states that earth is 6000 years old) Rest of human history when it comes to science is blunder and stupidity. And in 100 years humans or europeans found all options of how universe was created and we exhausted all possibilities? why are u so illogical.

The human race is billions of years old? Good luck on finding one scientist who would agree with you. Rather, the Bible says the body was formed from dust (Gen. 2.7) over the 13.7 billion years, and the first God-conscious man came into being about six thousand years ago. Before the first Adamic man were pre-Adamic men, but when they died they would just cease to exist. Anyone from the time of Adam on will never cease to exist, so you will go to Hell. Logicians appreciate the stories of Sherlock Holmes because he was a great logician, just like Spock on Star Trek who said when you exhaust all options and we have, then it is that which you did not want to accept that is in your purview that must be the truth. Amen. We really have exhausted all possibilities. Realize you are exhibiting a pretentiousness and false humility. Since it is proven that something can't come from nothing and the universe can't always have existed, necessarily there must exist a cause outside of itself. This is whom we call God. You didn't need this technological revolution to realize that, nor would you need another technical revolution to realize it. You are just shutting your mind down. You're being illogical. There is nothing new under the sun. So this is not about knowledge, but conscience. Your conscience sucks.

Quote:

Well this is useless since you ignore what i say...funny on ''we are not that dumb'' or how we dont want him to end like christopher hitches or like the other 99 per cent of scientists that actually done something to improve the quality of life and dont believe in god. Funny the most briliant minds in the world reject God, while you christians or muslims that read a book an your right and other retards... Heres an advice. Get a pair of nice sneakers and go out and jog.

What did I ignore you don't say? Why be coy? Most scientists were Christians. What is it worth it to improve quality of life if you are going to Hell anyway? The most brilliant minds in the world accept God. There are brilliant minds that reject God, but they are not too bright, if you know what I mean, since they will end up in Hell. Atheists are just as wrong as Muslims are, for Jesus died on the cross, the disciples claimed they saw Him alive from the dead in various group settings and no naturalistic explanation can account for this. Your profanity shows your not in control of your self. Why let the evil spirit control you? I jog regularly already, didn't you realize that?

Here is a list of some scientists who believe in God: http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3213