• Parture

    by Published on 04-20-2017 12:04 AM     Number of Views: 59 
    1. Categories:
    2. Apostles Set up Churches,
    3. Boundary of Local Assembly,
    4. Unity of the Body of Christ

    I can't be any more simple than this to describe the 7 church periods in Rev. 2 & 3.

    1st century - don't lose your first love (Biblocality)
    2nd century - endure martyrdom
    3rd century - don't marry church and state
    4th century - don't be like the Roman Catholic Church
    16th-19th century - weak revivals filling up a glass with less water each time
    19th century - brotherly love true overcomers (brethren movement, only wanted to be called Christians)
    20th-21st century - neither hot or cold, just lukewarm

    The first 3 church periods are consecutive, they came and past (their teaching is still true though).

    The last 4 church periods stay with us (RCC, Reformed/Calvinist, Brethren, and Emergent/Pentecostal).

    The RCC, Reformed/Calvinist and Pentecostal/Emergent are corruptions of the Church. Most people in these 3 groups are not born-again. They are going to Hell.

    The correct Church has these 5 characteristics: 1) OSAS Arminian; 2) Biblocality; 3) Partial Rapture; 4) Gap Restoration; 5) Dividing of Spirit, Soul and Body.

    http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/7churches.htm
    by Published on 10-03-2016 01:06 AM     Number of Views: 104 
    1. Categories:
    2. Spiritual Christian Life

    When I read this I am left in awe!

    Man was to destroy all the powers of Satan and be crowned with glory and honor that he might rule over God’s creation. But man had fallen and was thus not able to rule. It was for this cause, then, that the Lord Jesus came. He took upon himself man’s body of flesh and blood and became the “last Adam” (1 Cor. 15.45b).

    Continuing with Hebrews 2, we next read this: “that by the grace of God he [Jesus] should taste of death for every man” (v.9b). The phrase “every man” in Greek can be translated “every thing.” The Lord Jesus was born as a man and accomplished the work of redemption—yet not just for men but for all created beings, except the angels. Hence He occupies two positions. In the first, towards God, Jesus is the original man, the man whom God has foreordained; in the second, towards men, He is the Saviour. On the one hand, the Lord Jesus is the man whom God had foreordained to have dominion and to overturn Satan. And this man is now seated on the throne! For hallelujah! this man has already overthrown the powers of Satan. This is the man of God’s expectation and possession. On the other hand, this man is also related to us. We have sinned and fallen, but God set forth Jesus to be a propitiation. He not only became our propitiation, He also was judged for all created things. This fact is demonstrated by what happened at Jesus’ crucifixion with the renting of the veil in the Temple sanctuary (see Mark 15.38). For according to Hebrews 10.20 that veil points to the flesh of the Lord Jesus. On the sanctuary veil had been embroidered cherubim who were representative of created things. So that inherent in the flesh of our Lord Jesus were all created things. And on the day the Lord died, the veil, we are told, was rent into two from top to bottom. Naturally, the cherubim embroidered on the veil were also rent. Hence, in the death of the Lord Jesus, all created things were judged. He has thus tasted death not only for every man but also for every thing.

    Reading further in Hebrews 2, we learn this: “For it became him [God] for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory” (v.10a).

    Isn't it amazing that I know I am one of His sons because I accepted who Jesus is, while many refuse or reject Him; thus, they could not be called "sons of God".
    by Published on 08-26-2016 11:17 PM     Number of Views: 147 
    1. Categories:
    2. Dividing Spirit, Soul, Body

    The Ark of the Covenant in Our Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Hallas
    Quote Originally Posted by Parture
    If the Bible says it and I sense it by the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ agrees then it must be true.
    Do you think the "Holy Spirit", would have given you this sensing of these exact things, if you had never read or were told about these words in this Book? I have always been curious about why you never hear of this particular god, planting thoughts into non-Christian peoples minds that match, in any way, the words in the bible. Isn't that a curious thing? It seems to me that all revelations of biblical knowledge, come only to people who know it's contents first. Would you care to explain that to us non-Christians.
    When I came to Christ I never read the Bible, nor did I own a Bible. That's interesting. It was only after I was born-again that I began to read God's word.

    God is love and indwells His loved ones, not those who do not love Him. That's not to say the Holy Spirit can't work upon other people, for He certainly does (called prevenient grace, and common grace Rom. 1.20). But the intimate relationship of having His uncreated life in us is to grow in Him and walk in His ways, eventually reaching a state of complete selflessness and sinlessness. Satan works from outer to inner, but God works from inner to outer. So be careful of "so-called" planting thoughts into the mind of our outerman they are not always of God. Non-Christians receive God's suggestions that draws them to Christ. He will use environment and all kinds of means. His ways are greater than our ways.

    The Holy Spirit is always working even in those who are not saved, but the Holy Spirit doesn't indwell the spirit (innerman) of a person unless they are born-again. This is seen in the Temple. The outer court represents our body. It is where Jesus died on the altar. The Holy Place with its utensils represent the functions of our soul (mind, will and emotion). Within the Holy Place is the Holy of Holies which represents your spirit. Nobody was allowed enter except the High Priest once a year.

    When Jesus died on the cross the veil was rent between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies. From that point on those that were saved or born-again can directly commune with God by having access to the Holy of Holies where the Holy Spirit comes down upon the mercy seat and indwells the spirit of a believer. Inside the Holy of Holies is the law in the ark which judges according to God's will in our conscience. The blood is sprinkled upon the mercy seat where God receives our worship (commune with God).

    “My conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 9.1). Heb. 9.4 states that the Ark contained "the golden pot that had manna (represents communion), and Aaron's rod that budded (represents intuition), and the tablets of the covenant (represent conscience)." Rev. 11.19 says the prophet saw God's temple in heaven opened, "and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple." Such is an even clearer picture of how our spirit, soul and body work when Jesus returns.

    "The word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4.12). God wants your spirit, soul and body divided to not confuse your tripartite nature to walk by your spirit primarily and not your outerman of soul and body ("soulical body" 1 Cor. 15.44 original). Joints point to movement and marrow points to our senses.

    If you get lost in The Spiritual Man all will be made clear.



    by Published on 06-30-2016 02:32 AM     Number of Views: 187 
    1. Categories:
    2. Primary Verses

    Early Creedal Texts by Gary R. Habermas

    The New Testament contains dozens of very early texts that actually pre-date the epistles in which they were recorded. They may basically be thought of as the answer to the exciting question, “Of what did the very earliest apostolic and other preaching look like before even a single New Testament book was ever written?” The earliest forms of these texts were oral, where they usually served the purpose of briefly summarizing the essentials of Christianity (usually the factual essence of the Gospel data) including the deity of Jesus Christ, and could easily be memorized, even by those who were illiterate.

    Amazingly, scholars generally agree on the location of these traditions or creeds. These texts are recognized in many ways, but one of the clearest is when the New Testament writer explicitly tells us that he is repeating an early teaching, passing on a tradition, and so on. The chief examples include 1 Cor. 11:23-26; 15:3; 2 Thes. 2:15; 1 Tim. 1:15; 3:1; 4:9; 2 Tim. 2:11; Titus 3:8; Heb. 2:2-3. Others are identified by linguistic, syntactical, cadence, and other textual hints, and often concern the subject of Jesus occupying his heavenly place on the right side of God’s throne. Major examples include those in Rom. 1:3-4; 4:25; 5:8; 10:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; Phil. 2:6-11, and Heb. 1:3. Cf. many others such as Eph. 1:20; Col. 1:15-20; 3:1; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; 3:16; Heb. 1:1; 1:13; 8:1; 12:2; 1 Pet. 1:21; 2:21; 3:18; 3:22.

    While a bit different, it is widely agreed that there are also a number of brief sermon summaries within the Book of Acts which, like the other creedal materials, are much older than the book in which they appear. The most-commonly mentioned candidates for these sermon segments are in Acts 1:21-22; 2:22-36; 3:13-16; 4:8-10; 5:29-32; 10:39-43; 13:28-31; 17:1-3; 17:30-31. Those speaking of Jesus’ deity include Acts 2:33, 36; 5:31.

    Among other crucial topics, these early creeds often applied the loftiest titles of deity to Jesus Christ. Like Acts 2:36; Rom. 1:3-4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; 11:23; and Phil. 2:6-11. Intriguingly, this entire subject arose from studies by critical New Testament scholars rather than from evangelicals. This is one of those rare subjects where older studies are often seen as the most authoritative ones, such as what is often proclaimed as the classic work: Oscar Cullmann, The Earliest Christian Confessions, trans. by J.K.S. Reid (London: Lutterworth, 1943). Other major studies include Cullmann, “The Tradition” (59-99) and other essays in The Early Church, ed. by A.J.B. Higgins (London: SCM, 1956); C.H. Dodd, The Apostolic Preaching and its Developments (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1936; Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1980); Dodd, “The Primitive Catechism and the Sayings of Jesus,” in New Testament Essays: Studies in Memory of Thomas Walter Manson, 1893-1958, edited by A.J.B. Higgins (Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1959), 106-118; Joachim Jeremias, The Eucharistic Words of Jesus, trans. by Norman Perrin (London: SCM, 1966).

    Agnostic New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman both freely and often dates the earliest of these creeds to the 30s AD, sometimes within just 1-2 years after the crucifixion! Bart D. Ehrman, Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth (New York: Harper Collins, 2012), see pages 22, 27, 92-93, 97, 109-113, 130-132, 141, 144-145, 155-158, 164, 170-173, 232, 249-251, 254, 260-263; cf. 289-291.
    by Published on 01-27-2016 03:26 PM     Number of Views: 245 
    1. Categories:
    2. LDS/Mormons,
    3. Atheist, Agnostic, Agtheist,
    4. Universalism

    FairMormon.Org

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael LeCheminant
    These are my opinions and do not necessarily represent FairMormon or the LDS church.

    In monotheism of Christianity God was alone from everlasting and nothing beside God (no nature/matter/intelligences/material/etc), but not in Mormonism.
    This statement is not Biblical. Do you have a scriptural reference for why you believe this? When you say that God was alone, do you mean the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, or all three of them? Genesis chapter 1 says "let us make man in our image." The ancient Jews believed (as Mormons do) that in the beginning there was a council of gods.
    The Jews did not believe in a council of gods. They believed there were no such thing as gods, they were just idols made up by men. Elohim is the Trinity; if not then simply speaking of majesty.

    The law of the conservation of mass states that mass cannot be created or destroyed. This fits with the Mormon belief that God organized existing matter to create the universe. Some essence of our being has always existed.
    The law of conservation of mass allows for God who is infinitely great to bring things into being from Himself so nature did not always need to exist as you surmised. No essence of your being ever existed before God created you. By placing yourself alongside God feeds pride and debases God to a lesser being so you don't receive salvation from God who is optimally great.

    Mormons believe that all people are spirit children of God and that we lived with him before we were born. I find this to be a wonderful teaching that makes sense to me as well as a number of non-Mormons I have talked to, and it is hinted at several times in the Bible, yet no other church believes it. You are correct that Mormon belief is different from traditional Christianity. That is why we send missionaries throughout the world to share our message with everyone we can.
    It's never hinted at in the Bible we lived with God before being born. It's simply the romance of the gods such as Zeus and the gods of eastern religions. It's a way to exalt self. Whereas Christianity is monotheistic, that is to say, God was alone from everlasting before time and space in His 3 Persons. As the Bible says there is none beside Him, and no gods after Him. What you are doing to yourself is rejecting the atonement of Christ because you have turned Jesus into a lesser being who can never save. Only the uncreated Creator has that power to redeem. Since you are sending missionaries out, you are sending men to their doom and others. And isn't that Satan's ultimate objective? The Church did not disappear for 18 centuries.

    And there was nothing beside God before time and space.
    I believe that God is a physical being who interacts with others, and therefore he must exist in time and space. It makes no sense to me that it could be otherwise.
    Since the Bible says God the Father is spirit and that you can't see Him then He is not a physical being. He can and does exist outside of time and space in the Trinity. This is not so hard to understand as you think. Think of yourself as a stick figure on a piece of paper. He can see 2 dimensions. A cube is 3 dimensions. So when the cube is presented, the stick figure can only see one side or a square. He doesn't see the full cube (he can't) because the cube is in 3 dimensions. So it is with the 3 Persons of the Trinity. There is the other problem posed of your faith that if God the Father was once a man who became a God and the God that created that man was once a man, and this goes on ad infinitum in the past, you have the same problem atheists have because if there was this infinite regress of cause and effects, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. So nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator, the Trinity, is whom we call God. Mormons are really supernatural atheists.

    And Jesus created all things, being God (John 1.1) in the Trinity.
    I agree that Jesus is God and created the world under the direction of his Father.
    Jesus didn't just create the world, He created all things. He didn't even create only on the instruction of the Father for John 1.3 says "All things were made by him." Always remember, you redefine what God is so you don't agree that Jesus is God. God is not multiple beings. That's if anything polytheism. God is one Being. That's traditional monotheism even in other faiths. Evil the Devil knows God is One Being. There are not some things Jesus did not create. He created all things so there cannot be these things you call material/matter/intelligences that always existed alongside God.

    So how can the Jesus of Mormonism be the Jesus of Christianity?
    The Jesus of Mormonism is God incarnate who was born to the virgin Mary, worked many mighty miracles such as healing the sick and raising the dead, taught many important things such as those found in the Sermon on the Mount, and then suffered for all of our sins, was crucified on the cross, buried in a tomb, and was the first to be resurrected. He is our Savior and Redeemer and the Messiah. Is this this the same Jesus that you believe in?
    The reason why your Jesus is not the same Jesus because you redefine all these terms, but don't tell people until later. Jesus God incarnate is not a separate being from the Father or the Spirit. They are One Being in 3 Persons, co-equal like Phil. 2 says, co-inherent, one substances, each Person distinct, but not separate. Whereas your incarnation is relegated to being something alongside God in the eternity of the past. Surely you can see God alone from everlasting in His 3 Persons is all-knowing, all-powerful and everywhere present when He cannot be if He is limited by material/matter/intelligences that always existed also and if He was not alone before time and space. See the problem? It's not solvable because Mormonism is just a cult that came 18 centuries later. And so you are receiving an atonement that lacks the all-inclusiveness and effectiveness in Christ.

    Lastly, in Christianity when a person is born-again they can never go to Hell, but in Mormonism after being saved you can still go to Hell as an apostate Mormon and your works determine which heaven you go to.
    Most Christians do not believe in the Calvinist teaching of "once saved, always saved" (perseverance of the Saints), and there is no Biblical evidence for this, so Mormons reject it as do many other Christians. Only a certain segment of Protestants believe this. I'm curious as to your reason for believing it. Just because a person starts on the path toward God does not mean that they can't choose to leave that path and reject God. I have seen this happen countless times.
    Christians are not Calvinists. We know that Calvinists are going to Hell. But you are overlooking OSAS that is not Calvinistic, but OSAS Arminian. In other words, instead of being once saved always saved irresistibly a person can be once saved always saved by giving their lives to the God who keeps, for we don't even have in our own strength once saved to keep ourselves. saved. So John 10.28 says, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." As an aside Calvinists are confused because they teach "perseverance" which is works; they are suppose to believe in irresistible works. What you are teaching is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, that great harlot of religious Rome that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications. Roman Catholics are Remonstrants. But the Bible teaches salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. So there are not different heavens to go to based on your works. What you have seen countless times is a person who was never saved to begin with because if it was real it would have remained. Christians are not Remonstrants like you and the RCC, but nor are we Calvinists. We are the ones who were killed by the Roman Catholic Church and by that Protestant Pope of Geneva John Calvin. We are a "little flock" (Luke 12.32). The RCC is a great harlot, Mormons are a little harlot. Technically though Mormons are not even in Christendom. Many in Christendom are not saved, but Mormons are not even in that sphere as they are so aberrant.

    Mormons have a very different concept of hell as compared to traditional Christianity, and I believe that virtually all people who have every lived on the earth will eventually go to heaven. The Bible makes it very clear that we should live our lives according to the commandments God has given us. As we do so, we will become more like Christ and we will be blessed and rewarded as we follow him. That does not mean that we can save ourselves through our works.
    I don't believe most Mormons believe in Universalism for they do believe that Hell is a place of eternal separation from God even though in Mormonism very few go there. This speaks to the low standards in Mormonism if almost everyone is saved. But you believe in Universalism which has major problems such as you will be sharing a bunk bed with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, rapists and other sadistic evil people who never repent. Firstly, the Bible teaches there is no rest day or night forever in Hell where the worm never dies. Secondly, free will is not truly free if you don't have the free choice to reject God. Once resurrected a person will not change their mind. That's why I have never met anyone past the age of 40 (though there may be a few) who ever gave their life to Christ because they had more than enough time. Before you can receive this new life and work in that new life, you need to be born-again. The only way for you to be born-again is if you accept who Jesus truly is and receive what He did for you. You don't actually receive what He did for you turn Him into a false Christ and a lesser being which, of course, is what you have done.

    But in Christianity, works don't save or give you a standing in the pillars of the New City.
    I don't understand this statement. Maybe you can clarify.
    After the millennial kingdom, rewards are done away with. Everyone will be where they belong in the New City so it would be unjust to have multiple different heavens as in Mormonism. It reeks survival of the fittest. There is only one heaven and Rev. 21 heaven and earth come together in the New City on the New Earth. Period. There is one thing I haven't told you about, about who lives outside the New City on the New Earth who go through the 12 gates to receive renewal from the Tree of Life, but I will save that for another time.

    Works in Christianity only are rewarded when Jesus returns to reign over the nations for 1000 years.
    I agree that judgment day will occur after the second coming of Christ during or after his Millennial reign. But I have a question for you. If you believe that you are going to heaven, and you believe that you will be rewarded for your works, as you state here, do you believe that different people will receive different levels of rewards? If so, doesn't that mean that there will be different levels of heaven? Earlier you criticized Mormons for believing this, but it sounds like you must believe the same thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Judgment Seat is for Christians when He returns. The Great White Throne is after the millennial kingdom and judges the unsaved. Paul distinguishes spiritual and carnal Christians. Spiritual Christians receive the reward of returning (Jude 14,15) with Christ to reign over the nations (Rev. 2.26,27) for 1000 years (20.4-6). Think of that reward being presidents, prime ministers, ministers, ombudsmen, even head of businesses because knowledge is not as important as conscience. A better conscience in charge makes things run better. The millennial kingdom is not heaven. This is why the millennial kingdom is called the "time of recompense".

    I can't get Mormonism to agree with Christianity.
    If by Christianity you mean traditional Christianity of the Catholic, Orthodox, or one of the many Protestant varieties, then I would absolutely agree with you! Mormonism is not the same as traditional, creedal Christianity. We make the claim that we are more similar to the original Christianity as taught by Jesus and his apostles than any other church, and there is much evidence to support this view. We are a restoration of the ancient church in these latter days, and since we definitely believe in Jesus Christ, we definitely consider ourselves to be Christians.
    Think of an orthodox Christianity that sticks with the Bible, after all the Bible says don't say "I of Cephas" (denominationalism), "I of Apollos", don't even say "I of Jesus" (congregationalism). In the Bible the church is a locality of believers in a region of church localities so you see the church of Jerusalem in the churches of Judea, the church of Antioch in the churches Syria, or the church of Dallas in the churches of Texas. If someone asks what church you belong to, speaking to Christians, say you belong to the church <your town> in the churches of <your state or province>. Even where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name. This treats the church as a locality responsible unto itself.

    As aberrant as the Roman Catholics and Protestants are in all their varieties they are still closer to traditional orthodox Christianity than Mormon will ever be because they are Monotheistic. Mormons are the most polytheistic and henotheistic religion on the planet. I know you want to think you are Christian, but you are so far away. You are very much like atheists, but call yourselves supernatural atheists. Mormons are not restoring anything, you're just a cult headed up by a con artist Joseph Smith. The Church has always been fine the past 20 centuries. It did not disappear. And think how evil that would be that people could not get saved for 18 centuries. You definitely do not believe in Jesus Christ because Jesus created all things and only the uncreated Creator can atone for sins; anything else is insufficient and deficient. Humble yourself to the One True God who's power and authority in being alone from everlasting with nothing beside Him, no gods, nothing. By the way Rev. 17.16 says a dirty nuclear bomb will blow up the Vatican the smallest city in the world.

    Therefore, Mormons must be wrong about thinking that the Church disappeared for 18 centuries. That would be crazy since people couldn't get saved for 18 centuries.
    The church did not disappear for 18 centuries. The priesthood authority to perform saving ordinances was lost, and some doctrines were corrupted, but there are many, many people who lived during that time who will receive salvation. I'm curious what your belief is regarding what a person must do to be saved. You seem to think that the Church is necessary for salvation, and I agree with you, but many evangelical Protestants believe that confessing Christ is all that is required. If it's important to have a church, how do you know which church it should be?
    There were no doctrines that were corrupted. That's what a cult would say. I can help you with each one you hold precious. The Bible remains intact. You are actually saying the Church disappeared because the body of Christ is a royal priesthood and for 18 centuries you claim it was without priesthood. If you are not a royal priesthood, you're not saved. All believers are a royal priesthood. You're trying to Judaize Christianity by having an intermediary other than Jesus. Saving ordinances do not exist, for anyone can come to Christ without your alleged ordinances. Baptism does not save; rather, baptism is symbolic of burial and resurrection with Christ and coming out of the world up out of the water with Jesus. It is performed with or without water and it is experiential and for service having a sense you no longer belong to this world like a sojourner. All you need to be saved is to accept Jesus so nobody is without excuse. The church is for fellowship and to draw people to Christ. The solution for you is to relinquish the idea you need big glorious buildings with the Pentagram on them calling down the power of Satan, without any crosses, and just accept walking to the mall, or at the gym, or perhaps a small gather with friends on your street that there the church. In the OT the groups broken up into counted as 50 individuals. This does not preclude 3000 or 5000 together at one time, but it is less optimal.

    You say that it would be crazy if people couldn't be saved for 18 centuries, and I would agree with you. But I have a question. What do you think about all of the people who lived for several thousand years before Jesus was born? What about all of the people who have lived who have never even heard of Jesus? Do they have any chance of being saved? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church I know of that claims that every single person will have a full and equal opportunity for salvation, regardless of when or where they lived. Most Christians believe that all of those people are going to hell, but I don't see a just and merciful God doing that. He wants us all to return to live with him forever.
    Firstly, those who were looking to their Messiah as their suffering servant whose hands would be pierced in Is. 53 are no doubt saved. But someone on a remote island who never heard of Jesus, yet rejected the idols worshiped as gods, and believed in the God of the mountains and stars surely if he was presented Christ would accept Him whole heartedly. As you see the Father you see the Son, and as you see the Son you see the Father for with the Holy Spirit they are the Trinity. Father is I AM and Alpha and Omega, and Jesus said the same about Himself. Test yourself. Ask yourself how would the word of God need to be worded to convince you in the Triune God? I find that the Bible expresses it so many ways in so many places it would be overly redundant to do more than what the Bible has already done to make the point. Hell is eternally rejecting the Triune God, because those who reject the Triune God can't be in heaven since there is no sin corrupting people with a lie and not humbling yourself to God with the truth. You want to think Christians believe people who receive common grace and have not heard the special grace of the gospel are going to Hell, but that's not what we believe. A merciful God is no a God who is going to send you to different heavens based on your works, nor is God merciful in sending you to Hell after you were saved. As Dave Hunt said, that would be a weird kind of salvation if you get saved, lose it, get it back and lose it again. God will just throw the whole of Mormons in Hell, and actually, you lock yourself in Hell from the inside because you admit you will never accept the Triune God. So be it.

    But the Bible says Hell can't come against the Church even though Mormons think it had.
    Let me ask you a question, Troy. As a Protestant, do you believe that the Catholic Church is the true church that Jesus established? If your answer is no, then that means that the original church must have become corrupted or changed, because the Catholic Church was the only church for many centuries. If your answer is yes, then why do you subscribe to Protestant beliefs that are different from the Catholic Church? My point is that both Mormons and Protestants believe that the original church fell into apostasy. Protestants believe that they can get back to the original truth by correctly interpreting the Bible, but which of the hundreds of Protestant interpretations is correct? Mormons believe that the only way to return to the authority and purity of the original church was for God to restore it through a prophet and through continuing revelation. I would invite you to seriously consider this possibility.

    Mike L.
    You're misreading the Bible. In Rev. 2 & 3 we see a review of the problems the Church will go through for the past 20 centuries. The first church which was in the first century is Ephesus. They lost their "first love". The 2nd century church was called Smyrna. God told them to hold on for 10 days more as they were heavily martyred. The 3rd century church was called Pergamum. Their mistake was marrying church and state under Constantine. These 3 churches passed, but the next 4 after starting remained even to today. The 4th church period was Thyatira with Jezebel. She represents the beginning days of the Roman Catholic Church. She was a mustard seed but then turned into a great big tree with branches birds landed on like demons. The next church period was called Sardis representing revivals, but like a glass a water refilled with less and less water each time. It became in the 15th century reemphasizing justification by faith. Of course Calvinist latch onto that and call themselves Reformed which is a misnomer since the church doesn't need reforming. It had all the tools it always had. Luther was not saved because he was a Calvinist like Augustine before him. The 6th church period was Philadelphia, brotherly love. They were in the 1830s called the Brethren Movement. This was a name given to them, but in actuality they just wanted to be called Christians; that alone distinguished them as Philadelphia. And the last church period we are in now at the tail end of today is Laodicea. They are considered neither hot nor cold, just lukewarm. For a deeper study of the 7 church periods from a Christian who had the highest IQ in Christendom,


    Protestants do not believe the Church fell into apostasy, for the church has always been there as a church locality in a region of churches. With so much corruption go on around the world and in Christendom, the little flock remained true. Apostles are directly commissioned by God to appoint Elders of each church locality, and in turn those Elders approve the Elders of the many meeting places in a locality. The church is a locality of believers responsible unto itself and does not need a big show and pomp like Mormons. Praise the Lord!

    None of the 150 sects of the cult of Mormonism are true, but those who are truly born-again Christians have no denomination. Your approach is all wrong. You are making the same mistake Joseph Smith made when he asked what is the correct church? Satan gave him the wrong answer. When you begin to see the church as a locality of believers and they as a unit are responsible to themselves, you won't need to be part of the Mormon cult. You will try to make your church locality run better the race (first get saved though). You'll stop looking to the outer and walk in the inner sanctuary of your spirit receiving intuitive revelation in your spirit by the Holy Spirit. There are Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Teachers/Shepherds every century as workers for the Church. But the prophet you follow is a false prophet. The New Jerusalem was never built in west Missouri within a generation and your Jesus never returned in 1891 as Joseph Smith promised. Besides Missouri is only about 264 x 264 miles. The New Jerusalem in Rev. 21 is 1379 x 1379 miles. Smith didn't understand this. For him it was always about west vs. east. The center from where Jesus will reign is the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem for 1000 years, not America. The sooner you accept this the sooner you can begin to make progress in your life towards who Jesus really is.
    by Published on 12-21-2015 02:23 AM     Number of Views: 228 
    1. Categories:
    2. Regeneration,
    3. LDS/Mormons,
    4. Trinity

    I am a Christian. I was born-again as in John 3.7,16 Jan. 2001 and given eternal life right at that moment (John 3.15, 17.3). I can never lose salvation (John 10.28), and I go to the highest heaven of which there is only one heaven anyhow which is the New City in the New Earth (Rev. 21) where heaven and earth come together.

    The only new earth that fits this description is Mars for various many reasons as the old earth is left without the sea, but the new earth will also be without the sea as disclosed in Scripture (Rev. 21.1). And John viewed the New City from a great high mountain, mount Olympus, the largest mountain in the solar system. Hugh Ross, a scientist, has come up with over 800 variables for life to exist on another planet, but there are only 10^24 planets in the universe, so it is impossible for life to exist on another planet. Mars would have to be greatly terraformed for humans to live on it. Also, if 1% of the population goes to the highest heaven in Mormonism, there, again, are not enough planets in the universe. This is an easy enough mathematical calculation, and it holds true whether you start from Adam 4004 BC or from 1830 in Joseph Smith's time.

    Paul said "But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another." (1 Cor. 7.7) "For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect they will be like the angels in heaven" (Matt. 22.30). I don't see any couples in heaven when people die. I don't see, thus, billions of spirit babies.

    I find these verses disagree with Mormonism greatly. The word of God is pure and unchangeable. Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matt. 24.35, Mark 13.31, Luke 21.33). That being the case, the 66 books of the Bible have not been corrupted and remain perfectly preserved. So anything that contradicts it would not be true.

    I believe in the Trinity. One way to understand this without using Scripture is to provide an analogy since Mormons will often say the Bible is true but only to the extent that Joseph Smith says it is true; then no verse can be relied upon to help Mormons according to Mormons since they will just change it on the fly if they are corned. There is no cornerstone of truth.

    So imagine if you will a piece of paper. And on this piece of paper is a stick figure with legs, feet, circle for head, and arms and hands. Let's give this figure consciousness. In viewing his surroundings he will just see lines since his world is just width and length. He will see different colors in those lines; or he might see a 2 dimensional square or 2 dimensional shapes. They keep changing colors as an actual 3 dimensional cube with different colors on each side keeps rotating. God is showing you one side, then another side, and yet another side when you read about the Father, the Son and the Spirit (analogous to a 3 dimensional triangle, but don't get caught up in the analogy), yet all 3 are God so you can say 1/3+1/3+1/3=1. God doesn't need more sides than 3 so He only shows us 3 sides. We can't speculate beyond what He has revealed.

    A God who is infinitely greater than us stands to reason we can't see Him as He fully is in additional planes (God the Father is spirit, none can see spirit), but He can show us the sides of Him (Jesus entered His creation and Holy Spirit came to indwell the regenerated spirit of a saved person). And that's what He does with His Triune Being. Before the foundations of the world God's 3 Persons of One Being, One Substance, existed before time and space. There was nothing but God. Out of His glory He created us. He already had glory and perfection in His 3 Persons. This God is so much different than the Mormon god who once was a man. As God is, man may become; as man is, God once was according to Mormons. The law of eternal progression is a false law. This is bringing God down to our level of understanding and mistaken perception at that which leaves something to be desired.

    So, in conclusion, I don't see materials or intelligences beside God out of which He created, nor does God have a creator, for God is the uncreated Creator before time and space. He creates out of Himself. Man did not always exist in some pre-existing form alongside God. And that's the difference. Which God trumps the other? I believe God of the Bible wins out by proving His existence by the Trinity which is a superior concept or idea of God than simply God being an exalted man. Besides, salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. Hindus believe the ultimate Creator is Brahma. Muslims believe in the uncreated Creator also except that he is not the God of the Bible. Even the Devil knows God is the uncreated Creator but that can't save him, nor you. There must be a relationship founded upon the new birth.

    Likewise, the god of Mormonism can't be true either, because God always existed alone from everlasting, and because Jesus died for the sins of the world that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life (John 3.16). To receive eternal life is not by works lest anyone should boast (Eph. 2.9). Works flow from the new life, as a new creation of God, but they do not have the power to gain salvation or lose it. Grow in that new life once born-again to walk by the Spirit in our spirit. First you need to be born-again. Mormons have never been born-again by the Spirit of God.
    by Published on 07-17-2015 06:28 PM     Number of Views: 1915 
    1. Categories:
    2. 2022 to 2029

    7 Years of Abundance (2015-22) before
    7 years of Tribulation Famine (2022-29)


    Isaac Newton predicted Jesus would return Sept. 23, 2015 the Day of Atonement. He derived that from Daniel's prophecy in Dan. 9.24-27 which says from the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem there would be seven sets of seven, or 7 x 7 x 360 days (17,640 days), then another 62 sets of 7 after which time the Messiah would be cut off. There is exactly 173,880 days (69 x 7 x 360) from that declaration Neh. 2.1, March 5, 444 BC, to March 28, Monday, 33 AD, Nisan 10, the 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb. The 4 day inspection was March 28, 29, 30, 31. Jesus died on the cross April 1, 33 AD, Passover, Nisan 14 (Gregorian). Satan calls it April fool's day. I guess I am a fool for the Lord.


    So Isaac, some say the smartest person who ever lived and who spent more time on prophecy than the cosmos, said there would be a double fulfillment of the 7 sets of 7 to rebuild Jerusalem again before Jesus returns. Each of Daniel's sevens is 2,520 days long (7 x 360). 2,520 is the smallest number divisible by 2 to 10 as a basic prophetic working unit. The reason why this is amazing is because there is literally 17,640 days from June 7, 1967 when Israel took over Jerusalem to the Day of Atonement Sept. 23, 2015. Sept. 28, 2015 is the 4th Red Blood Moon in the Tetrad, the 8th feast Tetrad since Christ. Sept. 13, 2015 is that Elul 29, 2015 in a Shemita year for financial give back as occurred 7 years and 14 years prior amounting to 7% drops in the DJIA. The feast Tetrad won't happen again till 2582/83 and has no unique solar eclipse attached to it like we have the Nov. 3, 2013 H3 Hybrid (4th since Christ) as required in Rev. 6.12 before the Tribulation begins. Haiti 2010 (320,000 died, 2nd worse on record)/Japan 2011 (4th worse, 9.1 Richter, spilling tonnes radiated water into the ocean every day still) is the great earthquake in Rev. 6.12. The Red Blood Moon is also a Super Moon because it is at perigee and viewable from Jerusalem. The solar eclipse in 2015 is also viewable from the north pole which is the first time in 500,000 years.

    What did Isaac not figure out? I believe the 3rd Temple must be completed so there are 2300 days for the Temple to be cleansed (Dan. 8.14) from Passover 2022 to Tisha B'Av 2029. Even if construction began now it would not be completed by the necessary Passover 2016 for 2300 days from Passover to Tisha B'Av 2022. Therefore, what people are missing is a 7 year period of plenty followed by a 7 year period of famine.

    Every 7 out of 19 years there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av. Tisha B'Av was when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple on earth for 1000 years. The other 12 out of 19 years there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement (1260 + 1290 Dan. 12.11). Then there are 45 days more to the 1335th day for Jesus to set up Israel as the center of all nations (Dan. 12.12).

    The story of Joseph may predict a seven year period of abundance given to prepare for the Tribulation. God is giving us one final seven to set our house in order. How patient He is even after 2015 the Jubilee year and a Shemita year.

    Joseph was told that there would be seven years of abundance to prepare Egypt for the seven years of famine that would follow. Genesis 41:25-49. This may be a prophetic type of a seven year period of abundance that will precede the Tribulation as a time for the Church and Israel to prepare. This principal of Divine warning to make preparation for a specified period of tribulation is seen in other Biblical examples:

    • Noah was warned to prepare food and enter the ark 7 days before the flood began.
    • Rahab was warned 7 days before the battle of Jericho and so made plans to safeguard her family. She was taken out by the two spies after the 7th trumpet on the 7th day.
    • Israel was warned to prepare provisions 7 days before they crossed the Jordan to Jericho.
    • Elisha warned the Shunamite woman about the 7 year famine that was about to occur.
    • Israel was promised abundant crops before the land was rested on the Sabbatical Year (7th year).

    What I propose is asteroid Apophis is April 13, 2029, about 3 football fields in length and comes within satellite distance of earth (within 25,000 miles), is the "sign of the Son of Man" (Matt. 24.30) because nothing else can compare. The last time an asteroid of this size hit earth was 80,000 years ago and would kill tens of millions today.

    The hard part is narrowing down the day Jesus returns. Rev. 3.3 says "If therefore thou shalt not watch...thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." So the first condition for being able to figure out when Jesus returns is being watchful. I am not sure if I am watchful or not, but I aim to be as I run the race.

    I tried to land the dates in 2029 for Tisha B'Av, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles as these are the most significant dates, of course. Simchat Torah is also important because that is when the High Priest goes into the Holy of Holies to read the Torah Scroll after Tabernacles.

    We know there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Sept. 19, 2029 Day of Atonement. The 2,520th day would be Aug. 19th, 2029 which is about a month after Tisha B'Av July 22, 2029.

    I propose Jesus steps down on the mount of olives on Aug. 19, 2029. He Judges the nations for 30 days to the 1290th day (Dan. 12.11) then 45 days more to the 1335th day (Dan. 12.12) he sets up Israel a the center of all nations from where he reigns in the 3rd Temple with His overcomers (Jude 14,15; Rev. 2.26,27; 20.4-6) for 1000 years on earth.

    There are close to 75 days from Tisha B'Av 2029 to Simchat Torah.

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