Christian Forums http://biblocality.com/forums/ Discuss overcoming in Christ and how the Apostles and Elders organize the Church. en Fri, 18 May 2012 08:01:25 GMT vBulletin 60 http://biblocality.com/forums/images/misc/rss.png Christian Forums http://biblocality.com/forums/ Regeneration is Not the Same Thing as Initial Salvation? http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4705-Regeneration-is-Not-the-Same-Thing-as-Initial-Salvation&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 20:37:00 GMT The gospel is "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1.16). This is a conditional statement. If you "believeth" you will receive "salvation" (redemption and eternal life).

The Calvinist comes along and changes this to mean first a person needs to be regenerated then they can believe to be saved. So to the Calvinist regeneration and salvation are not the same thing.

The word "regeneration" is only used once in the Bible pertaining to individual salvation.

"According to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration [our new birth] and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Tit. 3.5).

How strange it would be that God regenerates us, giving us a new life, yet we are not saved.

Do you see how the Calvinist can change the meaning of words for their irresistibly imposed salvation? ]]> Totally Depraved James http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4705-Regeneration-is-Not-the-Same-Thing-as-Initial-Salvation Popes are Not Christians http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4704-Popes-are-Not-Christians&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 20:09:15 GMT Popes are not Christians.

]]> Roman/Eastern everstill http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4704-Popes-are-Not-Christians The Deliverance of the Cross http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4703-The-Deliverance-of-the-Cross&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 17:36:03 GMT MANY, IF NOT MOST, believers were not filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment they believed the Lord. What is even worse, after many years of... MANY, IF NOT MOST, believers were not filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment they believed the Lord. What is even worse, after many years of believing they continue to be entangled by sin and remain carnal Christians. In these pages which follow, what we intend to explain regarding how a Christian may be set free from his flesh is based upon the experience of the believers at Corinth as well as that of many like believers everywhere. We moreover do not wish to imply that a Christian must first believe in the substitutionary work of the cross before he can believe in its identifying work. Is it not true, however, that many do not have a distinct revelation concerning the cross at the beginning? What they have received is but half the whole truth; and so they are compelled to receive the other half at a subsequent period. Now if the reader already has accepted the complete work of the cross, what is given here will concern him little. But if like the majority of believers he too has believed only half the whole then the remainder is indispensable for him. Yet we do want our readers to know that the two sides of the work of the cross need not be accepted separately; a second believing only becomes necessary because of incompleteness at the first.

The Deliverance of the Cross

Upon reciting many deeds of the flesh in his Galatian letter, the Apostle Paul then points out that “those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires” (Gal. 5.24). Here is deliverance. Is it not strange that what concerns the believer vastly differs from what concerns God? The former is concerned with “the works of the flesh” (Gal. 5.19), that is, with the varying sins of the flesh. He is occupied with today’s anger, tomorrow’s jealousy, or the day after tomorrow’s strife. The believer mourns over a particular sin and longs for victory over it. Yet all these sins are but fruits from the same tree. While plucking one fruit (actually one cannot pick off any), out crops another. One after another they grow, giving him no chance for victory. On the other hand God is concerned not with the works of the flesh but with “the flesh” itself (Gal. 5.24). Had the tree been put to death, would there be any need to fear lest it bear fruit? The believer busily makes plans to handle sins—which are the fruits, while forgetting to deal with the flesh itself—which is the root. No wonder that before he can clear up one sin, another has burst forth. We must therefore deal today with the source of sin.

Babes in Christ need to appropriate the deeper meaning of the cross, for they are still carnal. The aim of God is to crucify the believer’s old man with Christ with the result that they who belong to Christ “have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” Bear in mind that it is the flesh together with its powerful passions and desires that has been crucified. As the sinner was regenerated and redeemed from his sins through the cross, so now the carnal babe in Christ must be delivered from the rule of the flesh by the same cross so that he can walk according to the Spirit and no longer according to the flesh. Thereafter it will not be long before he becomes a spiritual Christian.

Here we find the contrast between the fall of man and the operation of the cross. The salvation provided by the latter is just the remedy for the former. How fitting indeed they are to each other. Firstly, Christ died on the cross for the sinner to remit his sin. A holy God could now righteously forgive him. But secondly, the sinner as well died on the cross with Christ so that he might not be controlled any longer by his flesh. Only this can enable man’s spirit to regain its proper rule, make the body its outward servant and the soul its intermediary. In this way the spirit, the soul, and the body are restored to their original position before the fall. If we are ignorant of the meaning of the death herein described we shall not be delivered. May the Holy Spirit be our Revealer.

“Those who belong to Christ Jesus” refers to every believer in the Lord. All who have believed Him and are born anew belong to Him. The deciding factor is whether one has been related to Christ in life, not how spiritual one is or what work he does for the Lord nor whether he has been freed from sin, has overcome the passions and desires of his flesh, and is now wholly sanctified. In other words, the question can only be: has one been regenerated or not? Has one believed in the Lord Jesus as his Savior or not? If he has, no matter what his current spiritual state may be—in victory or in defeat—he “has crucified the flesh.”

The issue before us is not a moral one, nor is it a matter of spiritual life, knowledge, or work. It simply is whether he is the Lord’s. If so, then he already has crucified the flesh on the cross. The meaning clearly is not that of going to crucify, or of in the process of crucifying, but has crucified.

It may be helpful to be more explicit here. We have indicated that the crucifixion of the flesh is not dependent upon experiences, however different they may be; rather is it contingent upon the fact of God’s finished work. “Those who belong to Christ Jesus”—the weak as well as the strong—“have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” You say you still sin, but God says you have been crucified on the cross. You say your temper persists, but God’s answer is that you have been crucified. You say your lusts remain very potent, but again God replies that your flesh has been crucified on the cross. For the moment will you please not look at your experience, but just hearken to what God says to you. If you do not listen to His Word and instead look daily upon your situation, you will never enter into the reality of your flesh having been crucified on the cross. Disregard your feelings and experience. God pronounces your flesh crucified; it therefore has been crucified. Simply respond to God’s Word and you shall have experience. When God tells you that “your flesh has been crucified” you should answer with “Amen, indeed my flesh has been crucified.” In thus acting upon His Word you shall see your flesh is dead indeed.

The believers at Corinth had indulged in sins of fornication, jealousies, contentions, party spirit, lawsuits and many others. They were plainly carnal. True, they were “babes in Christ”; nevertheless they were of Christ. Can it actually be said that these carnal believers had had their flesh crucified on the cross? The answer undeniably is yes; even these had had their flesh crucified. How is this so? We should realize that the Bible never tells us to have ourselves crucified; it informs us only that we “were crucified.” We should understand that we are not to be crucified individually but that we have been crucified together with Christ (Gal. 2.20; Rom. 6.6). If it is a crucifixion together then the occasion when the Lord Jesus was Himself crucified is that moment when our flesh too was crucified. Furthermore, the co-crucifixion is not inflicted on us personally since it was the Lord Jesus who took us to the cross at His crucifixion. Wherefore God considers our flesh as crucified already. To Him it is an accomplished fact. Whatever may be our personal experiences God declares that “those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh.” In order to possess such death we must not give too large a place to discovering how or to noticing our experience; we should instead believe God’s Word. “God says my flesh has been crucified so I believe it is crucified. I acknowledge that what God says is true.” By responding in this fashion we shall soon encounter the reality of it. If we look at God’s fact first our experience will follow next.

From God’s perspective these Corinthians did have their flesh crucified on the cross with the Lord Jesus; but from their point of view they certainly did not have such an experience personally. Perhaps this was due to their not knowing God’s fact. Hence the first step towards deliverance is to treat the flesh according to God’s viewpoint. And what is that? It is not in trying to crucify the flesh but in acknowledging that it has been crucified, not in walking according to our sight but according to our faith in the Word of God. If we are well established on this point of acknowledging the flesh as already crucified, then we shall be able to proceed in dealing with the flesh experimentally. If we waver over this fact, the possibility of our definitely possessing it will escape us. In order to experience co-crucifixion we first must set aside our current situation and simply trust the Word of God. ]]> Dividing Spirit, Soul, Body Faithful http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4703-The-Deliverance-of-the-Cross The Necessity of Death http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4702-The-Necessity-of-Death&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 17:34:02 GMT *The Necessity for Death * To the degree that a believer is enlightened by the Holy Spirit into apprehending something of the pitiful condition of...
The Necessity for Death

To the degree that a believer is enlightened by the Holy Spirit into apprehending something of the pitiful condition of being fleshly, to that extent will his struggle with the flesh be intensified; and more often will be manifested his failures. In defeat he will be shown more of the sin and frailty of his flesh in order that he may be aroused to an increased indignation at himself and an ardent determination to contend with the sin of his flesh. Such a chain reaction may extend protractedly until at last, through experiencing the deeper work of the cross, he is delivered. That the Holy Spirit should lead us in just this way is truly fraught with meaning. Before the cross can do its deeper work there must be an adequate preparation. Struggle and failure supply just that.

Apropos the believer’s experience, although he may agree mentally with God’s estimate of the flesh that it is corrupted to the core and irredeemable, he nevertheless may lack that clear spiritual insight which accurately appreciates the defilement and corruptness of the flesh. He may suppose what God says to be true. But though the believer still would never say so, he still tries to tinker with his flesh.

Many believers, ignorant of the salvation of God, attempt to conquer the flesh by battling it. They hold that victory depends upon the measure of power they have. These therefore earnestly anticipate God will grant them increased spiritual power to enable them to subdue their flesh. This battle normally extends over a long period, marked by more defeats than victories, until finally it seems complete victory over the flesh is unrealizable.

During this time the believer continues on the one hand to wage war and on the other to try improving or disciplining his flesh. He prays, he searches the Bible, he sets up many rules (“do not handle, do not taste, do not touch”) in the vain hope of subduing and taming the flesh. He unwittingly tumbles into the trap of treating the evil of the flesh as due to the lack of rules, education and civilization. If only he could give his flesh some spiritual training, thinks he, he will be freed from its trouble. He does not comprehend that such treatment is useless (Col. 2.21-23).

Because of the Christian’s confusion in apparently desiring the destruction of the flesh while concurrently trying to refine it, the Holy Spirit must allow him to strive, to be defeated, and then to suffer under self-accusation. Only after he has had this experience over and over again will the believer realize that the flesh is irredeemable and his method futile. He then will search out another kind of salvation. Thus he now has come to appreciate in his experience what before he merely came to know in his mind.

If a child of God faithfully and honestly believes in God and sincerely entreats the Holy Spirit to reveal God’s holiness to him so that he may know his flesh in that light, the Spirit certainly will do so. Henceforth he may perhaps be spared many sufferings. But such believers are few. Most trust in their own method, assuming that they are not that bad after all. In order to correct this incorrect assumption, the Holy Spirit patiently leads believers into experiencing little by little the futility of their own devices.

We have observed that we cannot yield to the flesh; nor can we repair, regulate, or educate it, because none of our methods can ever alter in the slightest the nature of the flesh. What then can be done? The flesh must die. This is God’s way. Not through any other avenue but death is it to be. We would prefer to tame the flesh by striving, by changing it, by exercising the will, or by innumerable other means; but God’s prescription is death. If the flesh is dead, are not all problems automatically solved? The flesh is not to be conquered; it is to die. This is most reasonable when considered in relation to how we became flesh in the first place: “that which is born of the flesh is flesh.” We became flesh by being born of it. Now the exit simply follows the entrance. The way of possessing is the way of losing. Since we became flesh by being born of the flesh, it naturally follows that we shall be freed from it if the flesh dies. Crucifixion is the one and only way. “For he who has died is freed from sin” (Rom. 6.7). Anything less than death is insufficient. Death is the only salvation.

The flesh is most defiled (2 Peter 2.10-22); God accordingly does not attempt to change it. There is no method of deliverance other than to put it to death. Even the precious blood of the Lord Jesus cannot cleanse the flesh. We find in the Bible how His blood washes our sin but never washes our flesh. It must be crucified (Gal. 5.24).

The Holy Spirit can not reform the flesh; therefore He will not dwell in the midst of sinful flesh. His abiding in the believer is not for the purpose of improving, but for warring against, the flesh (Gal 5.17). “It (the holy anointing oil which is a type of the Holy Spirit) shall not be poured upon the bodies of ordinary men” (Ex. 30.32). If such be the case, how absurd for us frequently to pray that the Lord will make us good and loving so that we may serve Him! How vain is that hope which aims at a holy position some day wherein we may be daily with the Lord and are able to glorify Him in all things! Indeed, we should never attempt to repair the flesh in order to make it cooperate with the Spirit of God. The flesh is ordained to death. Only by consigning the flesh to the cross may we be liberated from being enslaved permanently by it. ]]> Dividing Spirit, Soul, Body Faithful http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4702-The-Necessity-of-Death We Know When the Tribulation Takes Place http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4700-We-Know-When-the-Tribulation-Takes-Place&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 02:55:13 GMT Do you think it is reasonable for Jesus to return within a lifetime when Israel becomes a nation again?

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh" (Matt. 24.32).

I think we can all agree the fig tree represents Israel and the summer is the millennial kingdom. The branch was tender no later than May 14, 1948 when Israel became a nation again.

"Summer is nigh" would be no longer than within a lifetime. "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away" (Ps. 90.10).

Abraham entered the promise land at the age of 75. "So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran" (Gen. 12.4).

1948 + 75 = 2023. Therefore, Jesus steps down on the mount of olives no later than 2023 so the very latest the Tribulation would be is from 2016-23.

Before the Tribulation starts certain events must take place.

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" (Joel 2.31, Rev. 6.12).

Haiti 2010 was the second greatest number of deaths of any earthquake in history. Japan 2011 caused Japan to shut down all 50+ of is nuclear power plants and it was the 4th greatest earthquake in history in terms of magnitude. Back to back, year over year, the world has never seen two earthquakes together this devastating. Never! Wake up people!

There are 4 kinds of solar eclipses. The rarest is the Hybrid occurring about 5% of the time. And there are 3 kinds of hybrids. The H3 the rarest occurring about 5% of the time. And a solar eclipse is even more rare when it is a long version, that is, lasting longer than 1 minute and 30 seconds according to NASA. Amazingly, on Nov. 3, 2013 is the rarest of all solar eclipses--the long H3 Hybrid. The H3 Hybrid starts as a partial eclipse and finishes off as a total eclipse to produce that black sackcloth effect. This is the 4th one since Christ and won't happen again till the year 2172.

What follows next is the 2014/15 Total Lunar Tetrad that lands on passover, tabernacles and again on passover and tabernacles. The 6th one since Christ was 1949/50 when Israel became a nation May 14, 1948. The Armistice treaty was signed 1949. The 7th Tetrad was 1967/68 when Israel entered Jerusalem June 7, 1967. It won't happen again till 2582/83, and there is no unique solar eclipse preceding it.

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors" (Matt. 24.33). Within a lifetime!

When does the 7 year Tribulation take place? It is not going to start in 2012 or 2013 or 2014 because the Temple construction must begin by the start of the Tribulation so the Antichrist can reign in it by the middle of the Tribulation.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months" (Dan. 9.27, Matt. 24.15, 2 Thess. 2.4, Rev. 11.2).

The 7 year Tribulation is 2,520 days (7 x 360) like all of Daniel's sixty-nine sevens were. 2,520 is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10. The 69th seven is concluded 4 days before Jesus died on the cross based on the sevens being 2,520 days each. The feasts of Israel are a rehearsal. The last 3 feasts deal with Jesus' second coming. Feast of Trumpets is the first of the last 3 feasts and pertains to rapture. Therefore, we should expect the Tribulation to start on Feast of Trumpets. This can be confirmed.

In 2015 Feast of Trumpets is Sept. 14, 2015 and the 2,520th day is Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022 (1260th day), the day the first and second Temples were destroyed. Jesus returns to reign in the third Temple. The 2,550th day (1290th) from Feast of Trumpets in 2016 is the Day of Atonement in 2023. So which of these two 7 year periods will be the Tribulation?

It takes 2300 days before the Temple is cleansed. "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8.14).

There are 2300 days from April 21, 2016 the 4th day inspection of the lamb, the day before Passover, to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022. The same is true for 2017 to 2023. So we need another clue. There are seven sets of seven (7 x 7 x 360) from June 7, 1967 when Israel took over Jerusalem to Sept. 23, 2015 Day of Atonement (total of 17,640 days). This suggests that 2015 is the starting year of the Tribulation so the Tribulation would be Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

At any rate the first rapture according to readiness is on Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 or Feast of Trumpets Oct. 3, 2016. I favor 2015 for several other reasons, because it is a Jubilee year, once every 50 years and it is a Sabbath year once every seven years. And Tisha B'Av in 2022 lands on a Sunday. ]]> Churchwork http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4700-We-Know-When-the-Tribulation-Takes-Place How I Like to Play Racquetball - The Easy Way http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4699-How-I-Like-to-Play-Racquetball-The-Easy-Way&goto=newpost Mon, 14 May 2012 18:35:17 GMT I play racquetball better when I am calm and composed. When I drive serve, it creates too much intensity, it's exhausting and is difficult to execute effectively so it becomes a constant struggle and source of frustration. This is true for most players who drive serve. Even for better players their drive serves come off the back wall way too often which are setups. So it doesn't matter if you get two serves just lob serve it always. A drive serve comes at you to either side into your sweet spot nice and low so it's a set up.

The z-lob serve puts the server out of position too much, because he has to get out of the way when the return of server tries to short-hop it. And the nick serve is way too difficult to execute. That leaves just the basic lob serve so it should just hit the back wall about 2 or 3 feet from the floor. The strategy is to shorten up the lob serve when your opponent tries to short-hop it and make it deep when your opponent waits for it in the back court. As the server, continue to play this little game of deep and short lob serves making him question always whether he should wait or short-hop. And you actually want him to short-hop the serve because it is at a difficult angle which will set you up.

I feel my strength is in killing the ball from shoulder high from the back court. That's where I feel most comfortable. All I need is for my opponent to hit a ceiling ball that is just a bit off, and I can take advantage of that. All I am doing is letting my arm drop naturally and effectively make that kill shot or sometimes a pass if there is an opening. The server serves a virtually perfect lob serve every time which is effectively a perfect ceiling ball, so the return of server is likely to make the first mistake in making his ceiling ball too long or short. This is the edge the server has. ]]> Health Churchwork http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4699-How-I-Like-to-Play-Racquetball-The-Easy-Way Exposing Jose Rivera a Leeist http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4698-Exposing-Jose-Rivera-a-Leeist&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 00:39:33 GMT Jose Rivera (http://joserivera4321.wordpress.com/) is a Leeist. In other words, he harbors six major since of Witness Lee: 1) calvinism, 2) modalism,... Jose Rivera is a Leeist. In other words, he harbors six major since of Witness Lee: 1) calvinism, 2) modalism, 3) suing Christians for faith, 4) violent screaming mantra, 5) calling themselves God, and 5) altering Watchman Nee's writings to try to make them agree with Witness Lee such as in The Spiritual Man changing the aspects of emotion (affection, desire, sensing/feeling) to love, hate, being affected (leaving out desire). Notice how "desire" is removed from Lee's version to control his adherents by removing any desire they may have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Rivera
The Bible clearly tells us that the day of Christ's coming and time, nobody knows. Not even the angels of heaven nor the Son, but only the Father (Matt. 24:36). Troy Brooks says that the Apocalypse will be the year 2015 to 2022 and the coming of Christ in 2022. Troy also said that the new heaven and new earth will be in the world Tuesday. How can people believe this kind of fantasy foreign to the Bible and then to say that believers in local churches are not genuine? How is it possible that how it is accepted interpretations but the sound teaching of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee is considered sectarian?
Let us not assume that we will forever not know. Certainly at the time of Jesus, the disciples did not know, for we are told we can't know when Jesus returns until Israel becomes a nation again when the "branch is tender" (Matt. 24.32). This would be fulfilled according to Ezekiel's prophecy on his side for 390 days that takes us to May, 1948. Verse 33 says we can "know" when Jesus returns even "right at the door".

The Apocalypse as you put it is not the full period of the Tribulation, not even the full portion of the last 42 months the Great Tribulation, but part of the 6th and 7th trumpets only.

The New Earth will be in the world Tuesday? Now you are just making stuff up.

The local outlets of Witness Lee's cult have a central command and control, which is not afforded to the body of Christ in the Scriptures. Rather, Apostles work regionally and appoint Elders of a locality. There is no Pope nor should the Biblical local churches be administered by the physical birth children of Witness Lee and their organization. You're sorely deluded.

Since Watchman Nee disagreed with these 6 major sins of Witness Lee, how can you associate Witness Lee with Watchman Nee?

Watchman Nee was OSAS Arminian, Trinitarian, did not sue over matters of faith, rejected gibberish babble and screaming mantra, rejected deification calling yourself God, and would not take kindly to his writings being altered by Witness Lee.

Fortunately, Watchman Nee's writings have been preserved at Christian Fellowship Publishers (white covers) and Christian Literature Crusade.

The Little Flock in China of Watchman Nee resoundingly reject Witness Lee and his heresies. Witness Lee was never born-again. ]]> Modalism Parture http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4698-Exposing-Jose-Rivera-a-Leeist Why is Infinite Regress Impossible? http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4696-Why-is-Infinite-Regress-Impossible&goto=newpost Sat, 12 May 2012 18:15:45 GMT Re: ghollisjr @ YouTube ---Quote (Originally by ghollisjr)--- This is getting tiresome. A time which is infinity ago does not exist in the... Re: ghollisjr @ YouTube

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghollisjr
This is getting tiresome. A time which is infinity ago does not exist in the same way that infinity is not an element of the real numbers. This does not mean that the real numbers have a lower bound, and it does not mean that there was a beginning of time either. I have explained this over and over again, and you keep telling me that I'm confused or delusional. I'm in graduate school working on a PhD in physics, I am not the one who is confused, or delusional as I have provided the demonstration for my arguments in the form of mapping time to the real numbers, which can be and is done every time we perform a time calculation in physics. Physics never says that time nesessarily had to have a beginning, just that our current natural laws started with the big bang. This does not mean that the big bang somehow came from philosophical nothingness, and it doesn't mean that time didn't exist either, just that our current description is incapable of saying what happened before the big bang if there was a "before".

Also, where are you getting this whole "you would have already happened if there was a past eternity of cause and effects"?? I'm pretty sure your reasoning is assuming that there is actually a time which is infinitely far away from any other time. But the idea behind the real numbers is that there is always an element which bigger or smaller (more negative) than any element you choose in the real numbers. So, if infinity belonged to the reals, there would have to be a number bigger than infinity. This type of thing happens in set theory (look up aleph 0 on mathworld.wolfram.com) where there are infinities which are different from other infinities, but is not a part of the real numbers and is thus not a part of my description of time. Your idea of time may in fact disallow an infinite regress, but it is not the one used to describe the universe in the most reliable way we have found to date: science.

If you want to talk about infinity, I suggest studying mathematics on the subject as it is a concept which is best described axiomatically and not using intuitional logic.
I would be tired too if I was living a lie and trying to rationalize it come hell or high water.

Your infinite regress theory is not bound, for it is an infinite regress of cause and effects. In your infinite regress theory time goes on forever in the past, but again, this is impossible because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. And you would have never existed because a past eternity would still be going on, never to reach this point. Trust me, the most educated person in the world doesn't have an advantage over the most simple-minded person when it comes to accepting or rejecting God because the logic is simple, evidence clear for all to understand, and the additional information only corroborates the finding further rather than overturning it.

Numbers are not causal entities. They are descriptive. You can map them all you want, but if you don't apply them correctly to the real life scenario, you are just doing fuzzy math. A number can't cause anything to happen, but when a ball drops on a ground it is because someone or something released it.

We know what happened before the big bang in that it required a cause because it can't come from non-existence. Why is this so difficult for your to understand? Why shut your mind down? Don't shut your mind down like a zombie for Satan for that is how you are coming across.

I make no assumptions. If you want to bring in your idea of infinite regress to replace God then you must follow its consequences, since you would have had an eternity of cause and effects to come into being before now, so you should have already happened. And you should never have happened because your alleged past eternity would still be going on, never to reach this point. How self-contradictory a past eternity is!

There is nothing bigger than infinity. Infinity is the biggest there is. Practically bigger or smaller infinities are in the domain of your fantasy, not reality. Infinity is infinity. Anything approximating infinity is deemed to be infinity. I first learned that in my grade 12 Calculus class. Basic.

I used science to prove to you through the law of cause and effect (trillions and trillions of them), there can't be an infinite regress, nor something from nothing, so nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. The very nature of God is to be uncreated, not bound by time or space.

Pretty simple. We all intuitively know this, but those who are hostile to God shut their minds down like you do which you are free to do so even for eternity in Hell. How sad for you. ]]> Parture http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4696-Why-is-Infinite-Regress-Impossible <![CDATA[In 2006 Ben Bernake Couldn't Have Been More Wrong About Houses and Markets]]> http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4695-In-2006-Ben-Bernake-Couldn-t-Have-Been-More-Wrong-About-Houses-and-Markets&goto=newpost Sat, 12 May 2012 17:57:12 GMT How can the Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke been more wrong about houses and markets in 2006 even while house prices were collapsing? This should tell you... How can the Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke been more wrong about houses and markets in 2006 even while house prices were collapsing? This should tell you that any of the talking heads that speak on CNBC are probably wrong, and whateve the Fed Chairman says should not be trusted. In fact, you should look to see what he said is wrong which will give you a clue to what will happen. One clue might be when he says "this has never happened before so it is not likely to happen."

]]> Economy AlwaysLoved http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4695-In-2006-Ben-Bernake-Couldn-t-Have-Been-More-Wrong-About-Houses-and-Markets Is the Tribulation from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement? http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4693-Is-the-Tribulation-from-Feast-of-Trumpets-to-Day-of-Atonement&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 03:26:54 GMT http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dura...&y2=2021&ti=on

From Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 5, 2013 to Day of Atonement, Sept. 28, 2020 is 2581 days inclusive.
- Tisha B'Av lands on the 2501st day.

From Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 25, 2014 to Day of Atonement, Sept. 16, 2021 is 2549 days inclusive.
- Tisha B'Av lands on the 2500th day.

From Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015 to Day of Atonement, Oct. 5, 2022 is 2579 days inclusive.
- Tisha B'Av lands on the 2520th day.

From Feast of Trumpets, Oct. 3, 2016 to Day of Atonement, Sept. 25, 2023 is 2549 days inclusive.
- Tisha B'Av lands on the 2489th day.

From Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 21, 2017 to Day of Atonement, Oct. 12, 2024 is 2579 days inclusive.
- Tisha B'Av lands on the 2519th day.

From Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 10, 2018 to Day of Atonement, Oct. 2, 2025 is 2580 days inclusive.
-Tisah B'Av lands on the 2,520th day.


There are 2300 days from the 4th day inspection of the lamb to Tisha B'Av when there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av. Since the Temple is cleansed when Jesus returns, He must return on Tisha B'Av and not on the 2550th day in years when the 2550th day lands on Day of Atonement. How can the Temple be cleansed when Armageddon is still going on? What's nice about years in which the 2520th day lands on Tisha B'Av is the 1335th day ends within a couple days after Tabernacles ends. The only 7 year period that works is 2015-22 because 2022 is just before 75 years from when Israel became a nation which constitutes a lifetime (Ps. 90.10).


This must be why nobody knows the day or the hour because the years the 2,520th day is not on Tisha B'Av, the 2550th day is on the Day of Atonement.

A key distinguishing mark is that there are 7 sets of 7 from June 7, 1967 to the Day of Atonement Sept. 23, 2015 so it makes one think the Tribulation would start in the year 2015.

7 x 7 x 360 = 17,640 days. ]]> Churchwork http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4693-Is-the-Tribulation-from-Feast-of-Trumpets-to-Day-of-Atonement <![CDATA[C&C Generals 2]]> http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4692-C-amp-C-Generals-2&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 01:38:47 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N16AFzdMHDY ]]> Software Churchwork http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4692-C-amp-C-Generals-2 The Plan to Invade Iran is Already Planned Out http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4690-The-Plan-to-Invade-Iran-is-Already-Planned-Out&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 00:36:58 GMT The most popular bill in Iran has a nuclear symbol on it.

Let's say USA strikes many of Iran's facilities, disabling their nuclear program. Iran concedes by stating they will end their nuclear ambitions. The world declares peace, but this is just the calm before the storm before the Tribulation starts.

]]> spiritualman http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4690-The-Plan-to-Invade-Iran-is-Already-Planned-Out <![CDATA[Let's Say if You have More than $250,000 You Go to Hell]]> http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4689-Let-s-Say-if-You-have-More-than-250-000-You-Go-to-Hell&goto=newpost Tue, 08 May 2012 22:26:23 GMT "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (Matt. 19.23,24).

]]> Luke http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4689-Let-s-Say-if-You-have-More-than-250-000-You-Go-to-Hell Infinity is Abstract Nonsense - Doron Zeilberger http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4688-Infinity-is-Abstract-Nonsense-Doron-Zeilberger&goto=newpost Tue, 08 May 2012 07:05:12 GMT Doron Zeilberger believes the concept of infinity in mathematics is utter nonsense and repulsive! I couldn't agree more! Finite numbers are elegant. Infinity and infinite regress are just fiction of the human mind.

A googol is 10^10. A googolplex is 10^10^100.

And Graham's number is the largest number ever used in a formula. It is so large we don't know what the first digit is or how many digits it has. All we know is that it ends in 7.

Doron says when you get to the largest number then it goes back to 0 after you add 1 to it. I think that's silly. I knew there was something wrong wit Doron because he said "Infinity may or may not exist. God may or may not exist. But in mathematics there should not be any place for infinity or God." What an arrogant thing to say! Mathematics would not exist without God creating it for Doron to work on.

God of the Bible can produce eternity of the future, but an eternity past or infinite regress is illogical, because you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so, and you would never have existed because a past eternity would still be going on never reaching this point.

Georg Cantor who said there are different sizes of infinity ended up in an insane asylum. That makes me think all sizes of infinity are exactly the same size.

I remember in grade 12 Calculus that anything approximating infinity is deemed as being infinity. I have a theory. The closer you approach infinity the closer infinity goes away! By george I think I got it!

I think the universe is a certain size and we can't go outside of it because as we approach its edge time slows down so that we can never reach it or it simply curves back upon itself. And it is God who circumscribes it.

In an infinity it is suggested there is an infinite number of monkeys typing an infinite number of Shakespeare's plays, and actually an infinity number of everything. But I think that is nonsense because God would find that meaningless and pointless. So He constrains His creation accordingly so it is maximally great and righteously orchestrated.

In an infinite universe with an infinite number of you and people, you are insignificant. For this reason, God restrains such infinities to His world ensemble that saves the most and damns the least.

Actually with the universe there is a defined number of variables so that there is a limited number of ways they can be arranged. As soon as you arrange those variables in the same way again, you meet the boundary of infinity.

]]> Science foreversaved http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4688-Infinity-is-Abstract-Nonsense-Doron-Zeilberger The Antichrist to Take Over England, Ireland and Scotland http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4687-The-Antichrist-to-Take-Over-England-Ireland-and-Scotland&goto=newpost Mon, 07 May 2012 04:29:57 GMT *Is Rome Reviving?* Hal Lindsey I have been watching for a very important Biblical phenomenon to take place in Europe for over fifty years. It... Is Rome Reviving?

Hal Lindsey

I have been watching for a very important Biblical phenomenon to take place in Europe for over fifty years. It is a key piece of a prophetic scenario that must take place shortly before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. In chapters 2 and 7 of his book, the prophet Daniel predicted the successive rise of four Gentile world empires. God through Daniel said that these would be the only world empires that would rise before the coming of the Messiah and the establishment of His kingdom over the earth. These kingdoms were Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome. However, the fourth Kingdom would not be conquered but fade from power until it is miraculously revived again and rule for a little over seven years. Daniel predicts that Rome revive again through the power of a Satan-possessed man that will unite the ten-nations out of the ruins of the old Roman culture and people. His Biblical name is the "Antichrist." Daniel interpreted the prophetic symbols concerning this prophecy: "Thus he said: The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth (Rome), which will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. As for the ten horns, OUT OF this kingdom (latterday Rome) ten kings will arise, and another (the Antichrist) will arise after them, he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings ..." (Daniel 7:23-24 NASB)

According to this prophecy, Rome would fade from power between verses 23 and 24. Then it would be revived again initially in the form of ten nations out of the culture and people of the old Roman Empire.

I believe we are finally seeing the groundwork of that predicted revival of the Roman Empire. Just listen to some electrifying quotes out of a recent article about secret plans being made to change the EU: "Senior Eurocrats are secretly plotting to create a super-powerful EU president to realize their dream of abolishing Britain." ... "Opponents fear the plan could create a modern-day equivalent of the ‘European emperor' envisaged by Napoleon Bonaparte or a return to the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne that dominated Europe in the Dark Ages." ... "It sounds as if they are trying to go back to the days of the Holy Roma Emperor." ... "Such a merger would represent a massive shift of power into the hands of a single, unelected bureaucrat ...The holder of this new office would be both Europe's political and administrative leader, giving him far more powers than those given to the US president."

You should read the entire article, but these key quotes reveal the purpose of planned actions that are right of the pages of Bible prophecy concerning the final stages of history before Christ returns. And even more important, they reveal that we are in the immediate general time of Christ secret coming to remove all true Christian believers some seven years before Christ's return to earth in an event known as the Rapture. The appointment of this new leader could be the beginning of the career of the antichrist. People will not fully realize it at the beginning stages. But he is the one that will bring together the revival of Rome and the beginning of the final seven years of this age theologically known as the Tribulation. The proposed removal from the EU of the UK composed of England, Ireland and Scotland could even possibly refer to the predicted removal of three nations in Daniel's above prophecy.

Folks, time is drawing short. It is time for all Christians to focus on bringing as many as possible to faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. It is also time to seek to grow in our faith and stand for Truth of God's Word. Jesus died in our place and purchased a pardon for our sins. We must be sure that we have received that gift and turn to following Him. ]]> Peter http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?4687-The-Antichrist-to-Take-Over-England-Ireland-and-Scotland