Apostles and Elders Organizing the Church

My favorite reasoning is all those verses that speak of Jesus returning with saints (e.g. Jude 14,15) to reign, it wouldn't make much sense for overcomers to return with Christ to earth only to plop back up to heaven. They are going to stay around for 1000 years to reign with a rod of iron (Rev. 12.5) over the nations (2.26), not in some fantasy amillennial way, before the New City and New Earth commence.

"In the regeneration" (Matt. 19.28)—This word "regeneration" is used twice in the Bible: once in Titus 3.5 where it points to personal recovery—which is a being born again, and here in this verse 28 where it refers to the recovery of the world—the consequence of which is the millennium (see also Rom. 8.19-23 and Is. 11. 6-9). From Adam until Moses sin was in the world (Rom. 12.14), and from Moses until the Lord Jesus sin reigned (see Rom. 5.12-14, 21). All who are born again in this age are delivered from the power of sin, but not delivered from the presence of sin. Likewise in the regeneration of the world, first comes the deliverance from the power of sin (for Satan is bound for a thousand years—the period of the millennial kingdom—which is done by the Lord and not through any social reform done by men), and then shall come the new heaven and the new earth with deliverance from the presence of sin.

Revelation 20.3 says the nations won't be deceived in the 1000 years, so obviously it is not happening now. Rev. 2.26, 12.5, 20.4-6 say.

Zech. 8.2 "'I am zealous for Zion with great zeal; With great fervor I am zealous for her.' 3 "Thus says the Lord: 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.' 4 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'Old men and old women shall again sit In the streets of Jerusalem, Each one with his staff in his hand Because of great age. 5 The streets of the city Shall be full of boys and girls. 8. Playing in its streets.' 6 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'If it is marvelous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, Will it also be marvelous in My eyes?' Says the Lord of hosts. 7 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'Behold, I will save My people from the land of the east And from the land of the west; 8 I will bring them back, And they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem (Matt. 24.31 "elect"). They shall be My people And I will be their God, In truth and righteousness.'

Simplified version: http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...-Way-Around-It!

Have you guys heard about these Lunar Tetrads all over the internet that tell us when Jesus returns?

Jesus was cursing the fig tree representing Israel for not showing its leaves, symbolizing Israel has no life then Jesus said, "Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near" (Matt. 24.32). The summer points to the millennial kingdom when Jesus reigns on earth. Israel's branches started to bud when Israel became a nation again May 14, 1948. And its leaves are sprouting again as they continue to get more land to the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18) and in June 7, 1967 took over Jerusalem. Then Matt. 24.33 says, "In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door." There is nothing that suggests you can't know the day as you approach that day though of course you can't know the hour. "Very near" would be within a lifetime so within 70 to 80 years according to Ps. 90.10 so no later than 2023 or earlier. Some people suggest you can't know the day, but this only applies to believers in their day these words were spoken to or to the end of the world (Matt. 24.35-36) or prior to the time when Israel would become a nation again (1948) according to Matt. 24.32-33 as the "you can know" is dependent on when Israel is a nation again. Ezekiel prophesied on his side when Israel would become a nation again to the month of May, 1948. Daniel prophesied to when Jesus would be cut off. How very specific is God's word! Therefore, Satan must be behind the "You can't know when Jesus returns" movement. We are to be watchful if we don't know the day as still most won't know the day, but even if you do know the day, still be prepared to be received up before the Tribulation otherwise you will lose this blessing.

Gen. 1.14 says "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs...." And we are told before the great and terrible day of the Lord which is the Tribulation period, specifically there will be a great earthquake, a black sackcloth solar eclipse and a red blood moon in that order (Joel 2.31, Acts 2.20, Rev. 6.12). Earthquakes happen all the time, and total eclipses are not that rare so these must be of a rare kind preceding the Tribulation. Are there any clues to exactly what kind of eclipses?

In 1949/50 there was a Lunar Tetrad in which the total eclipse occurred on passover, tabernacles, and again on passover and tabernacles over 2 years. It happened again 1967/68. The 8th time since Christ it will occur is 2014/15. The 20th century was the first time in history when two Tetrads on feasts occurred within 18 years apart. Surely this should not go unnoticed and has been placed for us in plain site to realize when Jesus returns. This Tetrad won't happen again till 2582/83 so the time is upon us. There is no rare solar eclipse around the 2582/83 Tetrad. The Temple will be built during the 8th Tetrad following when Israel became a nation after 2500 years and reclaimed Jerusalem.

However, none of this holds much water if there is not a substantial solar eclipse just prior to the four red blood moons in 2014/15. To our surprise there is. There is a Long Hybrid, H3 Solar Eclipse, November 3, 2013. This will be the 4th time since Christ it has occurred, and it is the rarest kind of solar eclipse. It finishes off by being a total eclipse which produces that black sackcloth effect noted in Rev. 6.12. But this isn't solidified unless there is a substantial earthquake preceding the solar eclipse. And in fact, there is the earthquakes of Haiti 2010 and Japan 2011. Never in history have two great earthquakes occurred back to back of such magnitude and killed so many people and destroyed so much property. Even in their own right by themselves they are significant breaking new records.

So there you have it, we know the Tribulation can't start before 2015 because Rev. 6.12 is before the Tribulation in keeping with Joel 2.31 and Acts 2.20. But neither can it start after 2016 because it must be completed no later than 2023. We have two 7 year periods to choose from which are 2015-2022 and 2016-2023. Is there more we can examine to determine which of these two periods is the correct one?

Well we know the Tribulation is a 7 year period of 2,520 days like all of Daniel's sixty-nine sevens (Dan. 9.24-27) which began and ended on key holidays. And 2,520 is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10 so that seems like it is of some importance (a basic working unit). As an aside, Israel circled Jericho seven times on the seventh day with seven trumpets. One can say the Trumpets are the Tribulation (loud), not the Seals (Seals are the past 20 centuries opened in secret), and the first time we see any saints in 3rd heaven is in Rev. 7.9 "before the throne". This occurs before the first trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7), therefore there is a rapture before the Tribulation starts; however, it is not for the whole Church, just those in the Church who are alive who are watchful (Matt. 24.40-42), prayerful (Luke 21.36) and who keep the word of His patience (Rev. 3.10). We may include martyrs from the past 20 centuries as well as per the 5th Seal.

As the first four feasts pertain to Jesus' first coming, the last 3 feasts deal with His second coming. The first of those last three feasts is the Feast of Trumpets which represents rapture. This agrees with Revelation 7.9 because it occurs before 8.7. The problem though is if the 2,520th day doesn't land on a special day then there is something wrong with our analysis. The 2,520th day from Feast of Trumpets in 2016 does not land on any special day in 2023. In 2015 Feast of Trumpets is Sept. 14, 2015 but again, on the 2,520th day there is no noticeable holiday...until one realizes that whenever Tisha B'Av, Av 9, falls on a Saturday it is held the day after instead. What is Tisha B'Av? This is when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed-a very sad day for Israel. Is it any wonder Jesus steps down on the mount of olives just as He left (Zech. 14.4, Acts. 1.11, Rev. 1.7) on Sunday, Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022? His plan is to reign in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years. Many do not have faith to believe in this Jesus who created the universe shall return to reign with His overcomers (Matt. 25.1-13; Jude 14,15; Rev. 19.11-16, 20.4-6) over the nations (2.26) with a "rod of iron" (12.5)-this reward given only to believers who "overcometh" (chapters 2 & 3).

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but this seems to be a lock solid proof to know when Jesus returns, and there is no budging on it. The exact date is confined and restricted specifically. You can't get around it. When you try to push it up it is blocked by certain constraints, and when you try to push it out farther, you're prevented by the above factors. Are there any other corroborating points? In Dan. 8.14 we are told the Temple is cleansed after 2300 days. There is, in fact, 2300 days from the 4th day inspection of the lamb, Thursday, April 21, 2016 to Aug. 7, 2022. Fascinating! Passover is April 22.

To dedicate the lamb and red heifer, the Temple would need to be completed by April 20, 2016, the 3rd day inspection of the lamb. Some say it would take 2 years to build the Temple, others say just a couple months. If it takes up to 2 years, construction would need to begin in the year 2014 at the latest you would think.

What are the probabilities of all this? From the year 0 AD there is a 1 in 2010 chance we could have had such amazing earthquakes right when they occurred. Since there has only been one century since Christ when there were two Tetrads that's approximately a 1 in 20 chance for two Tetrads to occur in the 20th century, 2/100 chance one of those Tetrads land on one of the two periods for Israel, and a 1/99 chance for the remaining Tetrad to land on the remaining period (a 1 in 100,000 chance altogether). There is a 1 in 700 chance the rare solar eclipse could have occurred in 2013 right where it needs to be before the 2014/15 Tetrad. There's a 1 in 7 chance Jesus would return on Sunday and a 1 in 7 chance Tisha B'Av would land on a Saturday to be commemorated the day after instead. There is a 1 in 6 chance these 3 events would occur in this precise order according to the Scriptures. And there is a 7 out of 19 chance a seven year period is exactly 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av when an extra month is added to the Jewish calendar. All told that's a 112 trillion to 1 probability. I would say that is more than ample evidence to know when Jesus returns and to know the signs Jesus said to watch out for for His return.

Scholars add up the dates of people in the OT and they come to 4004 BC. Adam would have been 18 years old in 3986 BC (perhaps the age of accountability for him). There are 6,000 years or 120 Jubilees from 3986 BC to 2015 AD. So the Day of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015 should be of great importance that year. From June 7, 1967 when Israel entered Jerusalem there are 49 sets of 7 years, 360 days each, to the Day of Atonement in 2015 (a total of 17,640 days). Wow! This is a double fulfillment of the declaration to rebuild the Temple Nisan 1, 444 BC that would be rebuilt in troublous times and take seven sets of seven to complete; then there would be 62 more sets of seven for a total of 69 sets of seven or 173,880 days that takes us to exactly Monday, Nisan 10, March 28, 33 AD (Gregorian)-the first day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb. The 4th day is Thursday, March 31, 33 AD when Jesus was captured. He died the following day on Passover, Nisan 14, April 1, 33 AD. Satan calls this day April Fool's Day. How evil Satan is!

I was curious about when the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses Enoch and Elijah would take place. It doesn't make sense they are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, nor at the very end because it seems they are killed in Revelation 11 before the 7th trumpet rapture and resurrection takes place in Rev. 11.15. As it turns out there are exactly 1260 days from Monday, Nisan 10, April 18, 2016-the 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb-to Feast of Trumpets Sept. 30, 2019. Other verses for the 7th trumpet rapture and resurrection are 1 Cor. 15.23,52; 1 Thess. 4.14-18; Rev. 14.14-16, 15.2-4. After the Great Tribulation starts (Rev. 9.1) of 42 months, there will be 5 months of the 5th trumpet (1st woe) plus a year, a month, a day, and an hour of the 6th trumpet (2nd woe) then follows the 7th trumpet rapture and resurrection which leaves 24 months till the end of the Tribulation (42 - 5 - 13 = 24). Based on these verses, the date for the final harvest would be Aug. 19, 2020 give or take a day (and this is the start of the 3rd woe or 7th trumpet). The 7th trumpet contains and pours out the 7 bowls of wrath. We are not appointed unto wrath. Even then people don't repent (9.20-21).

From the 1260th day Aug. 7, 2022 to the 1290th day are 30 days more for Jesus to judge the nations then there are 45 days more after that to the 1335th day for Jesus to set up Israel as the center of all nations. This 1335th day would be Oct. 21, 2022 after the last 3 feasts. Tabernacles runs from Oct. 10 to 16. Next follows the last two holidays of the year on the 17th and 18th; the second of which is called Simchat Torah when Israel takes out the Torah Scroll from the Holy of Holies to read it once a year (as well as the 3 items of the Ark of the Covenant). If we apply a 4 day inspection for the Lamb before the Son of Man officially reigns in the millennial kingdom, those 4 days are Oct. 18, 19, 20, 21. That's amazing!

What is the sign of the Son of Man in Matt. 24.30 for His return? I propose it is Jupiter in the sky in 2022 which occurs earlier in the year. It will be the closest to earth it has been in hundreds of years, visible for us to see, and the the NASA site for this occurrence, says it will sparkle with many comets hitting its surface. What a beautiful site that would be. Let us give praise to God for His soon return! Amen.

When I observe nature I see causation always, no hard evidence to the contrary, and that which does not exist can't cause anything because it doesn't exist, so something can't come from nothing.

The only possibility then is there is an infinite regress of cause and effects naturally, but then I ask myself, that doesn't make sense because if that were true, we would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. And we would never exist because a past eternity would still be going on for eternity never reaching this point. So infinite regress is impossible and self-contradictory. That which is self-contradictory and impossible is false.

So since nature can't come from nothing, nor always have existed in infinite regress, logically speaking the only possibility is nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, which would be uncreated, our uncreated Creator.

The question then is not whether atheism is true, but who the uncreated Creator is?

I take the position the Creator is accessible because that is loving, and the only 3 accessible faiths are Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. The rest are quite minuscule. I know Islam is false because you can't come along six centuries later without any evidence and claim Jesus didn't die on the cross.

And I know Hinduism is false because its God Brahma is amoral, but how can the Creator have a morality below our own? Furthermore, I don't find coming back as a chicken if I am overly sinful adequately deals with my sin nature in this life. We really only need this one life to decide if we want to be with God for eternity (forgiven) or to be eternally separated from Him in Hell.

Free will is not truly free if we don't have this free choice. And a chicken doesn't have sufficient self-consciousness and God-consciousness to have the opportunity to be turned back into a human again so that's just silly. A chicken brain doesn't have the capacity to hold a human brain.

So that proves Christianity is correct and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He created us, and nothing that exists exists without Him having created it. There is no way to the Father but through the Son, and there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved.

Unless you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, He will deny you before the Father. Unless you accept Jesus who He truly is, who died on the cross for the sins of the whole world to save whosoever is willing (John 3.16) and resurrected the 3rd day, you won't be saved.

The proof of the resurrection is icing on the cake, because nobody is able to find a naturalistic explanation to account for the origin of the disciples' beliefs in their eyewitness testimony to having seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and setting up the first churches on their eyewitness testimony. We know group hallucinations are impossible and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie when they could have saved their lives by telling the truth. And Jesus wouldn't have looked much like the risen Messiah if He somehow survived the cross all beat up, scourged down to the bone, nails in his hands and feet, thorns in his head and deprived of any sustenance for three days.

(1) You're unwilling to let go of control over self to place your trust in the sovereign Lord since you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. To maintain hold over self, you cling to an idol called Total depravity which says you can't repent and believe in Him so you don't. To rationalize your selfish stance, you accept the evil spirit's imputation to pridefully assume you were irresistibly selected. Thus, you never genuinely come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to be saved.

(2) You worship a cruel and sadistic god who sends people to Hell for being born into sin that was not their fault and blames them for not responding when he made them that way apparently. Your god is evil, incompetent and impotent to be able to provide sufficient grace to all to have the free choice.

(3) You worship a tyrant that irresistibly imposes regeneration on people which is not much of a gift since it can neither be accepted nor refused. There is no opportunity for salvation in Calvinism just the evil dictates of a non-sovereign god. How impersonal and quite unlike the relational God of the Bible who says, "ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart" (Jer. 29.13).

(4) As you are doubleminded so is your god who contradicts himself with his two wills, declaring openly he wants all to be saved, but secretly he doesn't. If something is a secret then by definition Calvinists can't make any claim about it or even if it exists so they are just pretentiously asserting themselves with their doublespeak. The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

(5) It's wrong to give people false hope that they can be saved when your god prods them on yet makes them unable to respond. There is no way around this abusive behavior, duplicity and charade.

(6) If there were two people drowning would it be right to let one drown and save the other? If you could save both but didn't in our society you would be guilty and go to prison for negligent homicide. But this is the way the Calvinist god operates. The Calvinist claims he can save both, but is perfectly just in not doing so. When I get in a pickle, I hope I am not standing next to a Calvinist. The question is, how can God's morals be below our own? How can the Creator have a morality that so against our own sense of right and wrong?

Cain and Abel
Did Cain and Abel have the free choice to give God a proper offering? Were they totally depraved? Was Cain preteritioned? Was Abel irresistibly made to give a lamb as an offering? God provided them with sufficient grace to have the free choice. Grace that is not sufficient for all is deficient. The Calvinist's lust for an explanation why Abel gave a proper offering goes unanswered. Instead of having the humility to accept he currently doesn't understand and be comfortable with that, he inserts into the text that which is not explicitly stated in order to make it agree with his committed position to try to comfort his soul. But it is not lasting because self cannot help but be puffed up, begetting more self, with the prideful assumption of being irresistibly selected.

What is the proper response to a Calvinist when he asks, why did Abel choose God and Cain didn't? Simply say to him that they were both made in God's image, born into sin, and by the grace of God sufficient for all gave us the free choice so it was their choice. What caused their choice? They did it. It was their choice afforded to them by God just as God has free choice, ability or free will whichever term you prefer. God made us in His image with this attribute He has. The god of Calvinism can't do that so you know the god of Calvinism is not just impotent and lesser but some evil spirit, possibly even Satan himself.

Conclusion
The Calvinist's main issue is he can't fathom how God can have infinite foreknowledge and reconcile that with free will. Well, I don't know how God gives me self-consciousness and God-consciousness either, but I know He does it, since He says so in His word. They are not trusting in God's word. It is even verified in our own experience what scholars call "proper basic beliefs" that are self-evident and common to us all. Because Calvinists can't understand how God does this, they assert God causes everything so nobody has the free choice to do anything (a facade), leaving the human race without any moral imperative. A person's conscience has nowhere to go but down from there. Shouldn't a true and lasting faith strengthen man's conscience?

Next time you come across someone who pleads with you and implores you to do something which you obviously cannot do, have not been supplied with the ability to do so and not given a choice in the matter (prevenient grace), just think of that person like the evil god of Calvinism who is being unloving and twisted.

Pure Logic Proves the Day Jesus Returns

Rev. 6.12 tells us shortly before the Tribulation starts there must be the rarest of solar eclipses (H3 Solar Eclipse) and rarest of lunar eclipses (Lunar Tetrad) in that order and sealed with a unique earthquake just ahead of the solar eclipse. Furthermore, Jesus returns not long after Israel becomes a nation (Matt. 24.33). Not long after would not be more than a lifetime of 70 to 80 years (Ps. 90.10) after 1948 that takes us to 2018 to 2028. Split the difference we get 2023. And we need to find a 2,520 day period for Daniel's final seven (9.27) because Jesus steps down on that last day.

The Tetrads when Israel became a nation 1949/50 and entered Jerusalem 1967/68 tell us to look for the next Tetrad to begin rebuilding the Temple which is 2014/15 (8th since Christ). If it doesn't have a unique solar eclipse preceding it then it is not the Tetrad Jesus was talking about (Joel 2.31, Luke 21.25, Acts 2.20, Rev. 6.12). Nov. 3, 2013 is the H3 Solar Eclipse (4th since Christ) and it was sealed by the Haiti 2010 and Japan 2011 earthquakes (greatest in history in certain respects).

The next Tetrad is not till 2582/83, but it doesn't qualify anyhow because we should not consider 634 years later as "very near" (Matt. 24.33). Besides there is no unique solar eclipse associated to that Tetrad nearly six hundred years from now, and the probability of a record breaking earthquake in 2579-80 is not likely.

But where can we find a 2,520 day period that is done before 2023? Well, the last 3 feasts of the 7 feasts of Israel pertain to Jesus' return so just like Daniel's 69 sevens were on specific key festival dates, we should expect the same for the last seven since God's word is consistent and will not throw us for a loop. God would not do that to us!

Feast of Trumpets is the 1st of the three feasts, so it is a good starting point. We need a miracle though for what are the odds of a significant holiday on exactly the 2,520th day from this feast? Not likely at all. And only one or two holidays would really be worthy of that 2,520th day. Well as it turns out, every 7 out of 19 years the 2,520th day lands on Tisha B'Av. What's that? That's when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed. Certainly of significance considering Jesus will reign in the 3rd Temple on earth for 1000 years. In fact, I can think of no better holiday for the 2,520th day. The 2,520th day actually is on Sunday Av 10 not Av 9 Tisha B'Av, but whenever Tisha B'Av is on a Saturday (Sabbath to the Jews) it is held the day after instead.

But which 7 year period does this fit into? 2014-21 and 2016-23 don't work. That leaves just 2015-22. That's it then. It is the only possible 7 year period for the Tribulation! Mystery solved. Not too difficult at all. Elementary dear Watson. And of course, other items like the 2300 days (Dan. 8.14), 1260 days (Dan. 9.27; Rev. 11.2, 13.5), 1290 days (Dan. 12.11) and 1335 days (Dan. 12.12) should fit as well by occurring on key dates. As it turns out there are 2300 days from the 4th day inspection of the lamb April 21, 2016 to Aug. 7, 2022. Passover is April 22, 2016. Oct. 21, 2022 is the 1335th day, that is, 75 days from the 1260th day Aug. 7, 2022. Oct. 21, 2022 is after the last 3 feasts (tabernacles is on Oct. 10, 2022) and lands on the 4th day of inspection of the lamb, the Son of Man, who reigns with a "rod of iron". The first day of that four day inspection is Simchat Torah Oct. 18, 2022 when the Torah Scroll is taken out of the Holy of Holies once a year to be read.

Have you noticed there are so many deceived souls out there who say you can't know when Jesus returns? Satan has them in a bind mentally and spiritually. Why does Jesus let us know when He returns after Israel becomes a nation again? This is special grace given to the last generation because we are approaching very troublous times unlike the world has ever seen or will ever see again. The aim is to make your temple (spirit, soul and body) ready for the Lord so you may be included and received up in the first rapture according to readiness on Sept. 14, 2015 as well as receive the reward of returning with Christ to reign during the 1000 years. Some may find this too distasteful. Nonetheless, the offer is there to us all. If this is not what you want or you do not overcometh in time, you will lose this reward by being sent to outer darkness which has no furnace or fire about it, outside the light of reward of reigning over the nations with Christ for 1000 years. The choice is set before you.

I'm just a messenger of this truth in God's word like Jeremiah preached 40 years and nobody listened. Few will receive this message. Even fewer will accept it.