• Jude 14,15 Jesus Returns with Ten Thousand of His Saints

    Since Adam let's say there will be 50 billion souls that have lived up to the moment of the return of Christ, 250 billion more souls during the millennial kingdom, and the New City will contain at most 1 billion souls to fit comfortably the space provided in Revelation 21 of 1379 x 1379 miles. So that's a savings ratio of 1 in 300 souls.

    I also assume that only about 1/7th of those saved will return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years because only 1 of the 7 churches in Rev. 2 & 3 is an overcomer church. So 1 in 300 of 50 billion is about 170 million. 1/7th of 170M is about 24 million souls. However, this conflicts with Jude 14,15.

    "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him" (Jude 14,15).

    Do you see? If only 10,000 return with Jesus which is 1/7th of those thusfar saved then the total saved would be 70,000 not 170 million.

    Even if "ten thousands" meant tens of the thousands, at most that number would be less than 100,000, otherwise it would read "hundreds of thousands." So the upper boundary of these figures could be as much as 10 times the calculations I have provided here, but the total saved would still be at most 1 billion.

    There is also "144,000" virgin firstfruits (Rev. 14.1-5) which is a class of believers in the total number of overcomers these past 2000 years. How do we reconcile this number with only 70,000 saves thusfar since Adam? One might say the 144,000 virgin firstfruits span the entire time from Christ's first coming to His second coming. This is a very special class of believers that are closest to Christ.

    Based on this clear word of Scripture, the savings ratio prior to the return of Christ is 70,000/50 billion ~ 1 in 700,000 souls. During the millennium another 999,030,000 would be saved for a total of 1 billion. The savings ratio during the millennium, thus, would be 999,070,000/250 billion souls = 1 in 250.

    And if only 7 billion are alive today when Jesus returns and the savings ratio is 1 in 700,000 that's only 10,000 Christians alive today. Of those 10,000, only about 1/7th would be first raptured-about 1400 souls-since the first rapture is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10). Isn't that amazing? Only about 1400 souls would be ready to be received "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) before the first trumpet of the Tribulation starts (8.7ff).

    As you can see the savings ratio dramatically increases with the presence of Jesus. I suspect the savings ratio was less than 1 in 700,000 souls prior to Christ, then 1 in 700,000 during the dispensation of grace, then drops down to 1 in 250 during the millennial kingdom.

    Of course, I could be wrong somewhere in this analysis, but if Jesus only returns with 10,000 of His saints as Jude said, we can be confident though I may be off on the exact numbers, the principle of what I have just said remains true. The message, therefore, people will be greatly surprised how low the savings ratio actually is.

    Today 100 people attend on Sunday a congregation and another meeting, 1000 people attend a church gathering. The implication of the savings ratio is it is likely none of them are saved. Perhaps at most one is saved.

    Lord, if I have erred in this message, please correct me so that I may speak and do your will. Let one of your saints correct me in what I have said because what I have said seems perfectly reasonable and seems to fit your approval.
    Comments 1 Comment
    1. Churchwork's Avatar
      Churchwork -
      Quote Originally Posted by copycat92 View Post
      While I agree that possibly only 1 % or 2% of churchgoers are saved. Let's take 60 million abortion babies in the USA alone: All of them are in heaven. Every miscarried baby is in heaven and every young child that never reached the age of accountability is in heaven. That is millions of kids right there. Then add in every person that never heard of Jesus: they are all in heaven. What does that do to your math?

      My other point: The 144,000 are the firstfruits. And they are only Hebrews. That means there will be a later harvest of an additional 7.2 million Hebrews.
      Nobody is in heaven yet, not even David a man after God's own heart (Acts 2.23) since 1 Thess. 4.14-18 says we are resurrected together and this gives us comfort. There has not been thousands or millions of people or even one person in heaven waiting for each person to die and be resurrected the moment they die. You can't go to heaven without a body. We are tripartite beings. You can't be in heaven without a resurrected body. People try to communicate with them but that's really necromancy and communicating with evil spirits masquerading as loved ones.

      It is evil to abort a baby but it is not clear a baby constitutes a living soul. We just don't know where God considers the demarcation point. It is possible even a baby a few months old could cease to exist. We should not be so dogmatic about this, because we just don't know. Even a 5 year old might cease to exist. Maybe a 10 year old. Do we know? No. They have not reached the age of accountability. A 5 year old and 10 year old who have not reached the age of accountability would be saved if they did not cease to exist, but it is possible they cease to exist. It is possible everyone who has not reached the age of accountability would cease to exist. We can't rule that out completely. It seems sad to say now, but that might be reality, and there is no way around it.

      If 10,000 saints return with Jesus as we are told in Jude 14,15, and the the ratio of non-overcomers to overcomers is 7 to 1 because only one of seven churches was an overcomer church then there will be only 70,000 souls saved from Adam to the return of Jesus.

      The 144,000 in Rev. 7.1-8 are not the same as the 144,000 in Rev. 14.1-5. The first group is the remnant of Israel as a nation like any nation would have a remnant if it underwent a great holocaust (there would be more than just 144,000, but God is especially pointing out these 144,000 as a pinnacle because 6000 years x 24 hours a day equals 144,000). Not everyone in a nation is saved. Unlike the first group, all 144,000 in the second group are saved.

      You're not reading the Bible properly. This information will help you to see these two groups of 144,000 are not the same,

      http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_7.htm
      http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_14.htm

      The later harvest mentioned in Rev. 14.14-16 are not Hebrews though some could be. The later harvest in Rev. 14.14-16 is 1 Thess. 4.14-18. It is the last trumpet rapture and resurrection. First rapture according to readiness is just before the start of the first trumpet, whereas the last trumpet rapture and resurrection is at the start (Rev. 11.15, 15.2-4) of the last trumpet. Within the last trumpet are 24 months of the 7 bowls of wrath. We are not appointed unto wrath. The first 6 trumpets take 60 months, leaving 24 months for the last trumpet.