Churchwork
01-14-2010, 06:13 PM
How about savior as it was used in that time.
soter
saviour, deliverer, preserver
The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influence.
So, how is God the preserver or benefactor of all men?
(Psa 145:9 NKJV) The LORD is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works.
Does He not give rain and sunshine to both the just and the unjust?
This way God is the savior of all men. BUT He is especially the savior of those who believe because He gives them all those things PLUS eternal life.
So, the correct reading is that God is the benefactor of all men by being good to all and giving them rain and sunshine and other things, but He is especially the savior of those who believe because He gives them all these things plus eternal life.
In other words, He does more for one group than He does for the other.
Bill
We are not concerned with ancient deities but God of the Bible. All words have their ancient derivatives, but in the Bible it takes on a specific meaning. Soter is the basis of Soteriology how a person is born-again. This is the "signal benefit" God bestows on all people providing salvation to be born-again if a person is willing.
Since eternal life is in view you admit as the work of the Savior specially to those who believe, there must be a reason why specially they believe. That reason is that God in providing the Savior to all men, eternal life is given only those who were willing to respond.
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4).
What is given to all, yet only some receive is because we are made in His image with free will and have received sufficient grace. Everyone of us. You may not like it that you are accountability and responsible, but God will have it no other way.
His tender mercies would not be given to all men when from birth they are destined to Hell without any grace given whatsoever to have the opportunity to be saved. Nor is there tender mercies by irresistibly imposing regeneration. God forces Himself on no one.
He does more for one group more than another because one group responds to the Savior of all men. By assuming you are regenerated, you are effectively rejecting God's provision for all men.
The NLT puts it well, "We work hard and suffer much in order that people will believe the truth, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and particularly of those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10). In order that people, not some people!
There is no distinction for some people, but "in order that people will believe the truth" thus requiring their response indicating they have sufficient grace to respond. It's the same "people". The KJV agrees, "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." Evil reads the Bible the way you do. No child would read Scripture the way you do. Children are privy to understand God's word also. They are not totally depraved.
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4). When a child reads this, he thinks Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, for all men. "God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son...that the world through him might be saved" (John 3.16-17). "He is the propitiation [Savior]...for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2.2).
He wants all to be saved by the Savior so all have received sufficient grace. You may not like it and try to get out of it, but the fact remains, "I came...to save the world" (John 12.47). Perhaps you would do better helping so many Calvinists out there that don't read this passage the way you do, but they interpret it as:
"Savior of all men WHO WILL BELIEVE, specially those who believe." Makes no sense I know, so that is why you use your approach, but your approach fails too because, see the error in the words you add to this verse:
"Savior of all men NONETHELESS WHO ARE GOING TO HELL UNLESS, specially those who ARE MADE TO IRRESISTIBLY believe."
Do you see the problem? You have to add so much text into the verse, you have to jump through hoops and perform mental gymnastics and forget what Paul said,
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4).
soter
saviour, deliverer, preserver
The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influence.
So, how is God the preserver or benefactor of all men?
(Psa 145:9 NKJV) The LORD is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works.
Does He not give rain and sunshine to both the just and the unjust?
This way God is the savior of all men. BUT He is especially the savior of those who believe because He gives them all those things PLUS eternal life.
So, the correct reading is that God is the benefactor of all men by being good to all and giving them rain and sunshine and other things, but He is especially the savior of those who believe because He gives them all these things plus eternal life.
In other words, He does more for one group than He does for the other.
Bill
We are not concerned with ancient deities but God of the Bible. All words have their ancient derivatives, but in the Bible it takes on a specific meaning. Soter is the basis of Soteriology how a person is born-again. This is the "signal benefit" God bestows on all people providing salvation to be born-again if a person is willing.
Since eternal life is in view you admit as the work of the Savior specially to those who believe, there must be a reason why specially they believe. That reason is that God in providing the Savior to all men, eternal life is given only those who were willing to respond.
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4).
What is given to all, yet only some receive is because we are made in His image with free will and have received sufficient grace. Everyone of us. You may not like it that you are accountability and responsible, but God will have it no other way.
His tender mercies would not be given to all men when from birth they are destined to Hell without any grace given whatsoever to have the opportunity to be saved. Nor is there tender mercies by irresistibly imposing regeneration. God forces Himself on no one.
He does more for one group more than another because one group responds to the Savior of all men. By assuming you are regenerated, you are effectively rejecting God's provision for all men.
The NLT puts it well, "We work hard and suffer much in order that people will believe the truth, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and particularly of those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10). In order that people, not some people!
There is no distinction for some people, but "in order that people will believe the truth" thus requiring their response indicating they have sufficient grace to respond. It's the same "people". The KJV agrees, "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." Evil reads the Bible the way you do. No child would read Scripture the way you do. Children are privy to understand God's word also. They are not totally depraved.
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4). When a child reads this, he thinks Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, for all men. "God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son...that the world through him might be saved" (John 3.16-17). "He is the propitiation [Savior]...for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2.2).
He wants all to be saved by the Savior so all have received sufficient grace. You may not like it and try to get out of it, but the fact remains, "I came...to save the world" (John 12.47). Perhaps you would do better helping so many Calvinists out there that don't read this passage the way you do, but they interpret it as:
"Savior of all men WHO WILL BELIEVE, specially those who believe." Makes no sense I know, so that is why you use your approach, but your approach fails too because, see the error in the words you add to this verse:
"Savior of all men NONETHELESS WHO ARE GOING TO HELL UNLESS, specially those who ARE MADE TO IRRESISTIBLY believe."
Do you see the problem? You have to add so much text into the verse, you have to jump through hoops and perform mental gymnastics and forget what Paul said,
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4).