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View Full Version : What is the Most Improtant Proof of God's Existence and Who He is?



Churchwork
03-05-2009, 02:39 PM
God of the Bible says the very best proof of His existence is by observing nature.

Specifically, he is saying since nothing in nature happens all by itself, the universe can't cause itself. There are trillions of things with causes in nature but not even the remote possibility of something happening all by itself. It would take a very arrogant and pompous purpose to deny this. Be "well-favored, and skilful in all wisdom, and endued with knowledge, and understanding science" (Dan. 1.4). The atheist is denying this scientific fact we observe in nature.

The Bible strictly warns to "avoid profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called" (1 Tim. 6.20) because God could foresee the lame excuses people might try to use to deny God's existence. In other words, many people profess to be teaching science, but their selfish motivations are all wrong and it is not science at all. God's Word loves science, for God uses science to prove His existence.

People who write atheist articles often say, "if everything has a cause, then the god must also have a cause, and that cause must have a cause and so on infinitely."

The error in this statement is in misreading the theist and misunderstanding what he is saying. The theist is not saying "everything has a cause," but that by the overwhelming evidence "everything we see in nature has a cause" so therefore, the universe can't cause itself. If the universe can't cause itself, then the cause must be uncaused. What applies to nature doesn't apply to the uncaused because the uncaused is not in nature.

As the atheist concedes this point they still try to argue, "...even if the argument were correct, all it would tell us would be that there is a first cause. Calling this first cause God, doesn't give it any of the properties, which are normally ascribed to gods, it could be some perfectly natural occurrence. I might as well say I call the chair, I'm sitting on, 'God', therefore God exists."

No, it can't be a natural occurrence, because it was just admitted by the atheist, "if this argument were correct" that "nothing in nature happens all by itself," then how can there be some "perfectly natural occurrence" since as was shown natural occurrences require a cause outside of nature, so the universe can't cause itself?

The only "transcendent causal agent" or being in the universe given the quality of being uncreated is God. The name we give to the uncreated is God. Our knowledge of the uncreated who created is realized in our God-given consciences which is why people in every nation on the planet throughout history have at the very least worshiped what they deemed to be God. Hence, we given the name of the uncreated the name God.

This quality of being "uncreated" is not ascribed to "gods" for they are just idols created by men. Even Hindus admit their 330 million gods are just representative idols of some aspect of nature. And the Bible says place no gods before Him and they are just idols anyway. An idol doesn't even have to be called a god, it can just be an ideology such as atheism with its mistaken assumption there is not this evidence for God.

An idol can even be something "good and true" such as doing the dishes. But some people, believe it or not, self-exalt themselves over others by doing dishes more than another and judges them falsely. Because the other person likes to let the sink get full before putting them in the dishwasher and running it does not make their approach any less valid. It might actually be more efficient to do it that way. People cling to their idols in their "petty self."

The atheist doesn't care about evidence, not really, for they biasedly take their position and try to argue around it instead of just letting the evidence lead them where it may as we have seen about the necessity for the first cause needing to be uncaused.

You can't say a chair is the cause because a chair is part of nature. God doesn't claim to be a chair and a chair can't speak for itself claiming to be God, for a chair is part of creation. It has no intelligence. Remember, God exists outside of creation. A chair, furthermore, doesn't have the quality that God has of being omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, personal and loving. These qualities are necessary features of the eternally infinite uncreated Creator.

To remain an atheist is like wearing a big sign on your head that reads, "I am a bad person, I like being a bad person, and choose to express it by lying to myself there is no God." This person, obviously, is going to Hell, because He can't be with the saved. A loving God would never allow that. And there is no option to cease to exist. You will be resurrected because you are made in God's image, and God's image can never cease to exist. It would be quite evil if God were to all a person in this life to sin all he wants and get away with so many things without being punished in the next life by simply ceasing to exist.

Once you realize God exists, you are not saved yet. Even Satan knows God exists. You have to accept the one true God and receive what He did for you on the cross by realizing you are a sinner in need of a Savior (perfect ransom for the sins of all mankind), for you must accept your true condition and the true solution which is the only solution, for no other name under heaven is there by which one can be saved than Jesus Christ. Unless you confess Jesus before men, He will deny you before the Father in heaven. You know Jesus is God because there is no naturalistic explanation to account for His resurrection that would fit what even most skeptical scholars admit in the data is true that the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus resurrected.

Praise the Lord!

DD2014
04-27-2009, 12:05 PM
"everything we see in nature has a cause" so therefore, the universe can't cause itself.

But we can't see everything in the universe. So how do you know that everything is uncaused? No one has seen or can even understand everything, so you are assuming that the universe can't cause its self. So please don't claim things that are impossible to know (you get a infraction for False Teaching). On that note, don't use the uncaused creator argument anymore because no one can prove it.

Churchwork
04-27-2009, 12:15 PM
But we can't see everything in the universe. So how do you know that everything is uncaused? No one has seen or can even understand everything, so you are assuming that the universe can't cause its self. So please don't claim things that are impossible to know (you get a infraction for False Teaching). On that note, don't use the uncaused creator argument anymore because no one can prove it.
I didn't say we see everything in nature but that "everything we see in nature has a cause". The preponderance of evidence is there are trillions of things with causes so one is easily able to conclude the first event of nature requires a cause too. Hence, we are left with only one possibility, the uncreated created. Learn to go with the evidence, the preponderance of evidence. Since you can't find one thing happening all by itself or anything being able to create itself, then you are just in a fantasy world and shutting your mind down to reality, on you way to Hell.

DD2014
04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
....on you way to Hell.

You got to love it when someone threatens you with something they have no say in what so ever.

Churchwork
04-27-2009, 01:07 PM
You got to love it when someone threatens you with something they have no say in what so ever.
Of course I can't send you to Hell, but if you feel it is a threat that's your own problem. I merely cite the fact that since Hell is proven and the Bible proves who is going to Hell, I can confidently say you are going to Hell, assuming you never give your life to Christ. This really does speak of the kind of person you are and your character.

DD2014
04-27-2009, 01:13 PM
Of course I can't send you to Hell, but if you feel it is a threat that's your own problem. I merely cite the fact that since Hell is proven and the Bible proves who is going to Hell, I can confidently say you are going to Hell, assuming you never give your life to Christ. This really does speak of the kind of person you are and your character.

You just said you can prove hell? Go ahead.

Churchwork
04-27-2009, 02:30 PM
You just said you can prove hell? Go ahead.
Since you can't be with the saved you have to go some place, and that place is what we call Hell.

DD2014
04-27-2009, 02:49 PM
Ok my bad I walked into that one...Prove any of it. (You know with actual proof?)

Churchwork
04-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Ok my bad I walked into that one...Prove any of it. (You know with actual proof?)
That was part of the proof, and since you can't cease to exist and you can't avoid being resurrected, therefore, you will go to Hell, for rejecting what Jesus did for you.