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Finestwheat
12-30-2008, 08:56 AM
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9).

James White says "the passage is not speaking about salvation as its topic."

The phrase "longsuffering to us-ward" cannot be addressed to only the elect. It must include all mankind. If not, the phrase that follows ("not willing that any should perish") must apply only to the elect. But the latter can only mean all of mankind, since it refers to a perishing that surely does not imperil the elect.

Perishing in a fire that will destroy the world or escaping it is certainly no more applicable to the elect than the perishing under the penalty of sin. And this cannot apply to first rapture in the partial rapture according to readiness (Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36, Matt. 24.42) that escapes the hour of trial, because the fire does not take place until after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. The day of the Lord is one long period of a 1000 years and partial rapture during the consummation of this age takes place just before the 1000 years (2 Pet. 3.8,10).

John Gill writes, "It is not true that God is not willing that any one individual of the human race should perish, since he has made and appointed the wicked for the day of evil.... Nor is it his will that all men...should come to repentance, since he withholds from many both the means and grace of repentance..."

Gill's blasphemy is clearly shown in the Word: "As I live, saith the LORD GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ez. 33.11). There is no way to define "the wicked" and "house of Israel" as the elect!

John Murray, a Calvinist, said "God does not wish that any men should perish. His wish is rather that all should enter upon life eternal by coming to repentance. The language in this part of the verse is so absolute that it is highly unnatural to envisage Peter as meaning merely that God does not wish that any believer should perish...."

Justin Martyr, writing in the second century, suggests that God is delaying the Last Judgment because "in His foreknowledge He sees that some will be saved by repentance, some who are, perhaps not yet in existence."

When were the earliest Calvinist thoughts introduced in writing? Are there any writings before Justin Martyr?

Finestwheat
12-31-2008, 08:56 PM
ARE THE ELECT IN DANGER OF PERISHING?

White claims the "any" and "all" refer to the elect in 2 Pet. 3.9. Now we have a new problem: how could there be any danger that the elect might perish in the final fire of God's judgment-and how would His longsuffering toward them prevent such an end?

White additionally contends that 2 Peter is referring to believers throughout with no mention of non-Christians. Although Peter is not speaking to mankind in general, but only to the elect, he is certainly not speaking only about the elect.

Salvation is undoubtedly the topic of this verse, since it refers to the repentance God desires for all; and surely a repentance unto salvation is the only means of deliverance from the wrath to come. But the elect, being already saved, don't need to repent unto salvation, so how could "any should perish...all should come to repentance" refer to them?

Now we are faced with one more redundancy: God is not willing that any of those He has sovereignly elected not to perish should perish? And He is longsuffering accomplishing that goal? Why does God require longsuffering if Grace is Irresistible since the god of calvinism can cause anyone to repent anytime anywhere? Nothing in calvinism makes sense, nothing whatsoever!

The only consistent understanding of this verse is that the "us-ward" in the phrase "longsuffering to us-ward" is like an editorial "we" that includes everyone. To "us-ward" is God's "longsuffering" because He wants no one to "perish," which could only apply to the world at large (unlimited atonement).

The ungodly are the ones who will perish. Peter is referring to the destruction of the universe from which the elect have been delivered. Clearly, God does not want anyone to perish, and, as He has done with Israel, is longsuffering in pleading with them and waiting upon them to repent and be saved-as all Scripture declares!