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Jamal
06-16-2007, 04:40 PM
Hello, Christians.

I am a muslim.

I know, I know, you do not approve, your God will smite me, etc.

But I was just wondering, why do you think your God exists?

It is obvious, Allah is the only one who could exist. I do not understand Christianity.

Churchwork
06-16-2007, 05:22 PM
First off you should not believe in the god of Islam because he lies to you. He comes 600+ years later and says Jesus didn't die on the cross when all the documentation we have He did die on the cross. Nobody in the first century thought otherwise. Can you find anyone who thought otherwise? What about the second century?

Jamal
06-16-2007, 05:24 PM
How dare you suggest that my God lies to me? This is blasphemy! This is madness!

Churchwork
06-16-2007, 05:27 PM
Where's your god's evidence?

Jamal
06-16-2007, 05:38 PM
How do we know Jesus was the son of God?

All you can do is prove he existed. Nothing more.

Yes, you can say you have the Bible for proof, but what proof is that? One book, twelve witnesses who knew each other intimately? How do you know they have not lied about everything, made up stories, to make themselves known?

Churchwork
06-16-2007, 05:57 PM
First off, for Jesus to be God He would have to say He is God. He says this according to His eyewitnesses. Who else said they were God in person?

Secondly, He would have to be sinless, and we know of no sin by Jesus.

Thirdly, He would have to fulfill the prophecies in the OT of which there are 62 (including about when He would arrive), and He fulfilled them all which no man could do unless He was God.

Fourth, His miracles are in accordance with God's grace and nature of the OT.

Fifth, He gave His life for you which is required of the Son of God to atone for sins as indicated in Isaiah 53.

Sixth, He had the power of resurrected and was witnessed resurrected by 12 different group settings. Only God can resurrect or give resurrection.

That's the perfect proof. Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, you know the uncreated created. Who is He? He is Jesus, for none can compare to Him. Put anyone up against His qualities and nature, and Jesus always wins.

There were more than 12 witnesses. Paul writes over 500 saw Him in 1 Cor. 15. Many did not know each other; many were even unsaved.

The apostles went to their death by martyrdom on saying they saw Jesus resurrected and that He is God. Men killed them for this testimony. A person would not be in a faith from the start knowing that one day they would be killed for their beliefs as Jesus said they would be.

Powerful eh?

Jamal
06-16-2007, 06:06 PM
1. See the post before this.

2. Why would they record one of Jesus' sins?

3. See the post before this.

4. See the post before this.

5. See the post before this.

6. See the post before this. Tomb-raiders and non-Christians could have taken his body.

Churchwork
06-16-2007, 06:50 PM
1. See the answer to the post before this.

2. Anyone could have recorded Jesus' sin if it existed, but none did. Pilate could find no fault with Jesus just as Agrippa II could not find reason to keep Paul imprisoned. The Jews, though they tried, could find no fault with Jesus.

3. See the response to the post before this.

4. See the response to the post before this.

5. See the response to the post before this.

6. See the response to the post before this.
a. Jesus predicted His resurrection, so it would make sense the tomb would be empty.
b. Why would a non-Christian steal Jesus' body and never present it as evidence to disprove Christianity? There is no motivation. The tomb we are told was secured by two guards. If they guards let Jesus go missing they would face death, just as they would face death if they let a man on the cross live. Men of the Sanhedrin went to the tomb to put spices on His body. This was the highest body of Israel which as a whole do reject Jesus being God.

c. Jesus was seen resurrected after He died, which explains why the tomb was empty.
The empty tomb is testified by enemy sources-enemy attestation. Rather than point to an occupied tomb, early critics accused Jesus' disciples of stealing the body (Matt. 28.12-13; Justyn Martyr, Trypho 108; Tertullian, De Spectaculis 30).

This is the only early opposing theory we know of.

Every possible angle is examined in The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, 2004, Gary R. Habermas.

Jamal
06-18-2007, 06:32 AM
So you mean that if I say something, but it wasn't recorded, it didn't exist?

Churchwork
06-18-2007, 11:39 AM
No. Rather, all the evidence we do have points one way, not your way, so you would need to show some motivation or reason for your idea rather than just rely on mindless self-declaration which is selfish. It's like any cult that comes centuries later that tries to proclaim something new without basis, e.g. Islam 600 years later. Nobody proposed your idea in the first century (and they certainly were closer to the events than us), nor can you or I find anything to corroborate it. Alas, you don't even try. This is why we can still say to this day, no alternative explanation has ever been devised that is for serious consideration. So we can reasonably conclude the disciples saw Jesus resurrected as He said He would.

Amen.