Help for Doug Yancey-Mor(m)on

[Churchwork]

Doug,

If you had the Holy Spirit in your spirit:

1) You would no longer be a Mormon
2) You would no longer think God is gods
3) You would no longer thing God is different substances
4) You would no longer accept Joseph Smith’s grand cult or think Smith was saved in his Satanic encounter.
5) You would no longer believe that the 3 Persons of the Godhead are separate.

This is why according to the Scriptures you are unregenerated. No more, no less. You believe in something, but it is not of the 66 books of the Bible. You believe something else and what you believe is incongruent with the God’s life, that is eternal life and His Holy Spirit.

I can only give you the truth of your heart condition and your dead spirit (an intuitive conscience insensitive to things of God). You still have to make the choice for Christ Doug.

[Churchwork]

I tried again to help Doug Yancey give his life to Christ, but still he refuses to do so as he always ends up shutting his mind down to the facts and the need for evidence. This is actually a glory to God, because God will not coerce Himself on Doug (showing how righteous and holy God is in all His dealings). He treats Doug with respect made in His image to give him the free-choice. He will not treat him as instrumental value, but is intrinsically valuable to God, even if God has to put Doug into hell for all eternity for refusing the Trinity of One Substance. Here are the claims he makes which he refuses to try show evidence for, which after all this time, we can be fairly certain, he can't because his beliefs are false. God has released me from this burden of the Holy Spirit, because I have done all I can to help lead him to Christ.

Doug's sins:
1. Since your self-declaration John 17 says that Jesus is of another substance than the Father is never shown, and no Christian that I know of reads it that way and certainly no Christian scholar, then you are living a lie in the vagaries of your self-declaration, and following after an evil man Joseph Smith who is just one guy all by himself who claimed something like Mohammed in a cave started his own religion. You have nothing you can find in the Bible to help your claim that God is gods or different beings of different substances; nor do you address how these beings came into being. Obviously your Satanic puff the magic dragon approach will not do.

Christians read John 17 as the humility of Christ showing perfect obedience. The Father, Son and Spirit of the Trinity agreed the Son would enter into creation to show that perfect obedience unto the Father. This is the complex of God's Triune Being of one Substance.

2. Your claim of subordinationism (see chart (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/mormonism.htm)) is not true at all. For in the eternity of the past, the Father was co-equal with the Son and the Spirit, and co-inherent. Just because the Father and the Son agreed that the Son would be the one who entered into creation to be the atoning sacrifice and erect obedience unto mankind, does not mean subordinationism. For remember what Rev. 22.1,3,4 says that God and the Lamb will the center of the new city, and you shall see His one face. Yes! His one face of the Father and the Son. Remember in all our discussions (over a thousand email exchanges) this is where you faltered the most and had the most doubt in your ideas when I told you about this in Rev. 22.1,3,4. This is where you are potentially open to having a change of mind. Let this be your doorway of truth in the Scriptures that helps lead you to Christ. Don't be embarrassed at your late stage in life, that you would be just now saved! God glories in such miracles! And Christians will rejoice.

3. Your claim that the Father is the Word and so is Jesus goes, but this goes against what John 1.1 says and is modalistically doubletongued, considering you are a tritheist polytheist mormon. It says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Further along we discover Jesus is the Word, the person on earth Whom the 66 books of the Bible (the Word) embody just as Jesus in the form of God is the Godhead bodily when He is in His creation. Never ever will you find the Bible saying the Father is the Word. Silly. This shows how way off you are!

The negative consequences of this are not too hard to see. Once you let the idea in your head that God is different beings (when it was never revealed in the Word), then you open up pandora's box. You excite your flesh and your imagination goes wild about what these different beings in God are doing. You would be trying to be like God by mistakenly assuming He is different beings. Satan tried to get into God's head too, but obviously he failed. Eve wanted to be like God too, and Adam fell with the same attitude. You can never be saved by trying to save yourself your own way. Where is the humility in NOT accepting some things God won't reveal to you such as what is underneath the Father, Son and Spirit. It's like a person who programmed a computer game. The character in the game cannot know more than what the designer reveals.

Besides, all of this silliness is based on one guy who said he saw something, but then he lost it, so he had to make it up. He fabricated it on gold plates, and got people to look at those gold plates so he could have eyewitnesses. Plus, they didn't even see the contents. Then some of those eyewitnesses left mormonism.

Some people don't want to be saved. So many failed prophecies...
http://members.aol.com/DiaLogos3/prophecies.htm

[Churchwork]

I have wrestled with the matter of whether or not to put these pages on-line. LDS are pretty defensive about this approach, which seems like a direct attack. But the Bible does warn us to “beware” of false prophets. This info is useful in obeying that command. Further, everyone knows the standard “testimony” of Mormons relates to their confidence in the church, the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith. Yet, none of those who tell me these things have ever put Smith to God’s Biblical test for a prophet. We are told in Deut. 18:20-22 how to test a prophet. It says that if “the thing” prophesied does not come to pass, then we are not to fear (or revere as a prophet) such a person. Note that it doesn’t say “the things”...but limits the test to any ONE prophecy. With that in mind, let us look at SEVERAL of the prophecies of Joseph Smith.
The fact is that a list of over 55 (false) prophecies of Joseph Smith has been compiled by former LDS Elder, Dick Baer, who printed it up to demonstrate to his friends and family why he was leaving the church. Here are some of them:

July 1831, Doctrine & Covenants 51:1-3 names Independence, Missouri as the center place of Zion. And D & C 62:1, 6 and 9 say the saints would be preserved and rejoice together in the land of Missouri. But they were not preserved in the land of Missouri (they were driven out) and did not rejoice. While this was a promise to the FAITHFUL, the fact that no one was able to be preserved and rejoice in Missouri(their being driven out was a catastrophe) would indicate that all the Mormons had become unfaithful. So even if we make this conditional it would suggest a TOTAL apostasy in this new church. That would throw a question on the whole authority/priesthood issue, would it not?
D & C 84:2-5, 31 and 114-115 say a new Jerusalem temple was to be built IN JOSEPH SMITH’S GENERATION in Zion (Missouri) on the temple lot. It was not built.
D & C 87 (Civil War Prophecy) It is interesting to me that this is a prophecy LDS claim was fulfilled. South Carolina had already rebelled when Smith wrote of “the rebellion of South Carolina”, but that rebellion did NOT spark the civil war (1833) - the war began in 1860. Though Great Britain was called on, it did NOT get involved in the war, and contrary to the prophecy, war was not poured out on all the nation. Nor did the slaves rise up against their masters as a major part of the war... it was primarily a war of white men against white men, North against South.
Doc. & Cov. 103:13-25 speaks to the men of Zion's camp, who were organized to march to Missouri and RESCUE the Mormons there (see vs. 24). Verse 25 promises they (those men of Zion's camp) would avenge God's
enemies. But in the History of the Church, Vol. 3, pages XXXIX and following is described the utter FAILURE of Zion's camp to avenge anyone of anything! God's OWN presence (vs. 19) supposedly went with them...but the
whole thing failed!
D & C 111:1-11 (August 6, 1836). Regarding Salem, Massachusetts: “I have much treasure in this city for you... I will give this city into your hands... and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.” There is no record that either the city or any of its wealth ever came to Smith. While this promise was supposed to happen "in due time" (so it has been suggested that it may happen later), Smith and his men were IN SALEM when the revelation came, and left there
very disappointed at not having gotten any treasure, as they did not interpret the use of the word "you" in the revelation to mean some OTHER people in some OTHER century.
D & C 112 is a “revelation given through Joseph Smith to Thomas B. Marsh at Kirtland, Ohio, July 23, 1837.” It says God knows Thomas’ heart and he has a great work for him to do; he was chosen to hold the keys of the kingdom. Marsh was president of the 12 at that time, but apostatized 15 months later (Doct. Hist. of the Church III, pp. 155-167).
D & C 114, dated April 17, 1838, says, “Verily, thus saith the Lord: it is wisdom in my servant, David W. Patten, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring...” But Patten died October 15, 1838 (D.H.C. III, pp. 170-171).
D & C 115:1-12. The saints were commanded to build a house to the Lord in Far West, Missouri, “until it is finished, from the cornerstone unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished.” Though the foundation was laid, the temple was never built (there was a move on to Nauvoo).
D & C 124:56-60 says the “Nauvoo House” was to be built and belong to the Smith family forever, and was to be a place of refreshment for visitors. But the house never was completed; that area is now owned by the Reorganized LDS church. In verse 63 of this section it gives instructions on issuing stock for the house that was never built. Why would a God who knew the future command such a deception to be told to his own people?
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 302: “I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri...that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left.” The wrongs were never redressed.
D & C 124:16-17 speaks of God’s acceptance of the work of John C. Bennett. But D H C, V, page 42, reveals that 3 months before this revelation and beyond, Bennett was involved in adultery.
History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182. Joseph Smith said that the coming of the Lord was “nigh — even 56 years should wind up the scene.” (Given in 1835)
Church History, Vol. 2, pp. 380-381. Joseph Smith said he saw in a vision of the CELESTIAL kingdom “the 12 apostles of the Lamb who are now upon the earth.” But the History of the Church later records the apostasy and final excommunication of 5 of the 12 apostles referred to in this vision: Lyman Johnson Vol. 3:20
Luke Johnson - Vol. 2:528
William McLellin - Vol. 3:31
William Smith - Vol. 7:483
Thomas Marsh - Vol. 4:284
I wish to acknowledge that Joseph Smith did give one true prophecy as follows: “For although a man may have many revelations and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he BOASTS in his own strength and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must FALL and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him.” (D & C 3:4, emphasis added)
Joseph Smith did boast in his own strength - that he had done more than even Jesus Christ (D H C 6:408-409). This boast was made in May of 1844. In June of 1844 Joseph Smith did fall (dead), not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he killed two and wounded one (Comprehensive History of the Church, pp. 284-285). He died not as a sheep going to slaughter, but as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

“Beware of false prophets”

by Sharon Doty

[Churchwork]

LDS in Trouble Because of DNA Evidence

There is a big problem for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to deal with...somehow. To summarize it, the Book of Mormon teaches as historical fact that the Indian tribes in the Americas are descendents of Israelites who came across the Atlantic mainly about 600 BC. BUT... studies of 150 plus Indian tribes' DNA has revealed a total lack of any Semite (Israelite) genetic markers in the Indians in the Americas. The logical conclusion is that the Book of Mormon story is fiction, not fact. The Book of Mormon is allegedly the whole foundation of Mormonism, so it is a bombshell issue. For further details about the DNA research, CLICK HERE (http://www.mormonsinshock.com/DNABOM.htm). I'm sure other info can be found through a search of the internet as well. This information has been out now for over two years, and is appearing in tracts, videos and newspaper articles. An article on this subject that appeared in USA Today can be read at http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-07-26-dna-lds_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-07-26-dna-lds_x.htm). For more information connect to: http://www.exmormons.org/ (http://www.exmormons.org/). Mormons are having mixed reactions; shock, disbelief, denial, and disillusionment. My heart goes out to this group of people.
So what is my interest? I am a Christian and I've been a student of LDS teachings for over 35 years and have felt God called me 17 years ago to WARN Mormons that they have been deceived about SOME of the things they have believed. This would be one of them.
My message at this point is this: Can we talk? I would plead with the LDS reader, as you reevaluate what is true and what is not, to consider the following thoughts:
1. The Bible has not been disproved--you can safely believe in it.
2. Jesus Christ has not been discredited in any way. PLEASE do not throw out the baby with the bath water.
3. Do not make the false assumption that "If the LDS Church is not true, then no church is true." That assumption is based on a false premise--the "TOTAL APOSTASY" premise. Please read the truth about this! (Click here: Apostasy and Restoration (http://www.mormonsinshock.com/apostasy.htm))
4. The heart of my warning to Mormons over the years has focused on the LDS plan of salvation. PLEASE, PLEASE study this out because it involves the destiny of your soul! (click here: Mormons in Shock (http://www.mormonsinshock.com/mormons_in_shock.htm)). I'd be so pleased to discuss any of these four points with you as well as other topics discussed in my site (Article Index: click here (http://www.mormonsinshock.com/article_index.htm)).
My testimony to you is that God and Christ are real and worthy of your trust. I have trusted Christ as my Savior and He has made Himself real to me and to literally millions of others who have trusted in Him, through changed lives, answered prayers, and other miracles. I stake my life on these statements. Salvation CAN be found outside the walls of the LDS Church. I would love to discuss Biblical salvation with you. It is even BETTER than what you have been told in the LDS Church. Can we talk?

http://www.mormonsinshock.com/

[Churchwork]

It is better for you Doug to speak with your own words, because none of the hundreds of articles you cut and past arbitrarily that you send me actually address my points. Plus, it is very impersonal like the impersonability of God being a social collective of created beings.

There is some basic things that ought to be agreed on. Reason with me.

1) In the eternity of the past there was not multiple gods, since you would have to ask who or where did this god or that god come from, which is a never ending question, just like atheists believe there is an eternity of the past of causes and effects. Therefore, there must be one source of one substance in the eternity of the past. We know atheists believe ultimately in Lucifer, and by comparison, then so would mormons. God the Father was never a man, and He was not created from another being. You should reject this reincarnated effect. He is uncreated.

2) The Son of God also has to be uncreated, otherwise you are receiving an atonement from a created being which is less than the God I believe in, so my God trumps your God. You lose and I win in Christ.

3) It stands to reason that if God the Father is uncreated and God the Son is uncreated, so too is God the Spirit uncreated since God the Spirit is the life of the Father and the Son. And if all 3 Persons of the Godhead (the Trinity) are thus co-equal and co-inherent, then the Triune Being must be all of one substance.

Ultimately what you are doing is shutting your mind down to proper reasoning, because you want to go to hell and get as many people to go there with you. By your desire to want to go to hell, you have to shut your mind down to this proper reasoning. :wacko:

[evan]

Let's examine some of these, shall we?


There is some basic things that ought to be agreed on. Reason with me.

1) In the eternity of the past there was not multiple gods, since you would have to ask who or where did this god or that god come from, which is a never ending question, just like atheists believe there is an eternity of the past of causes and effects. Therefore, there must be one source of one substance in the eternity of the past. We know atheists believe ultimately in Lucifer, and by comparison, then so would mormons. God the Father was never a man, and He was not created from another being. You should reject this reincarnated effect. He is uncreated.

As far as reasoning goes, you face the same problem: where did God come from? He is 'uncreated'? He must have come from somewhere. You really can't use your argument against the LDS when current Christian theology faces a comparable *problem*.

2) The Son of God also has to be uncreated, otherwise you are receiving an atonement from a created being which is less than the God I believe in, so my God trumps your God. You lose and I win in Christ.

I am not a particularly good arguer/debater, but this is the worst argument I have seen. "I think my God is better than yours so you lose"

????????

3) It stands to reason that if God the Father is uncreated and God the Son is uncreated, so too is God the Spirit uncreated since God the Spirit is the life of the Father and the Son. And if all 3 Persons of the Godhead (the Trinity) are thus co-equal and co-inherent, then the Triune Being must be all of one substance.

It most certainly does not stand to reason that God is 'uncreated'. Neither does it stand to reason that the Son is uncreated. And even if those things are true, it certainly does not make sense that they are the same 'substance'. They can be co-equal without sharing any 'substance'.

[Churchwork]

Christians do not face the mormon and atheist problem of wanting an eternity of the past of cause and effects of gods creating gods, because we observe what God says. God says look at the mountains and the stars to know God did it, and that since nothing in nature happens all by itself, therefore, the uncreated must have created. The created could not have been the ultimate creator.

It is the faith that can't accept the uncreated and uncaused created that is an evidence your beliefs reveal your unsalvation. The Holy Spirit reveals this fact as the proof that since obviously an uncreated God would have more power than a created god, this is why you lose and have hell waiting for you. Your beliefs are a reflection of your unsalvation, so God says we shall know them by their fruit. You don't want to be saved by the uncreated Savior, but want a lesser salvation so you can remain in sin through a created being.

Further, it remains true that since there can only be one uncreated in the eternity of the past and not multiple uncreated beings, since you would have to ask where these other beings come from, then you know that the uncreated nature of the Triune Godhead requires all 3 Persons of the Trinity to be uncreated and of one substance as Christianity has always taught. You are not a Christian, but someone who gets off on your cultic idea that puffs you up. You would need to learn the difference between your soul and spirit (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm) to allow God to break this bondage you are under.

The Holy Spirit has shown me in no uncertain terms through this explanation and revelation is why you are going to hell. This is a shield of protection against you as you aim to deceive in your ego. You are a bad person who wants to remain in sin and has found a way to rationalize it to yourself. God values so much the preservation of His Word against such things as polytheism.

What I have said here was already said. Since it needs be repeated, it shows that you don't care to address it. In other words, you are stuck on your assumed stance of the atheist idea of beings creating beings in the eternity of the past as a moron-mormon. I also believe you know you are willingly deceiving, but don't care. You do have a spirit of God-consciousness so you are aware of your uncreated creator God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, but you don't care as you choose to alter His very Being as Satan tries to exalt himself too. Your conscience is dead to God that you presume darkness in Christianity the past 1800 years after the cross even though Jesus said "It is finished". That is to say, all the power of the cross by the Holy Spirit is available to all so as to maintain spiritual Christianity, even though there may be many faults in greater Christendom. What you try to teach is a diabolical alteration which is cunning and couth, ugly and unholy.

Satan lives by self-declarations, and that is how you live. Your self-declaration is that God is different beings who are created beings, so you have no personal relationship with the uncreated creator. How sad for you.